This Beyond Interior Design podcast is all about the power of interior designers to drive sustainable design. We’re discussing the importance of asking the right questions, providing tools to support sustainable decision-making, and inspiring designers to make informed choices for a better world.
Do you want to connect with Anita? Please go to: www.instituteofinteriorimpact.com/ankita
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
This Beyond Interior Design podcast is all about the power of interior designers to drive sustainable design. We’re discussing the importance of asking the right questions, providing tools to support sustainable decision-making, and inspiring designers to make informed choices for a better world.
Do you want to connect with Anita? Please go to: www.instituteofinteriorimpact.com/ankita
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
this is a huge amount of power in the hands of interior designers because I think the Interiors is actually something that people experience very closely and have an emotional connection with yeah but also it's always in transient so when people move from building to building they want to put their own stamp they don't change the whole building but they change the interior the world around us is changing rapidly we know that but our profession our working method isn't and that's why unfortunately our profession is often and especially for the outside world too much about Trends these days fast friends about consumerism about let's say buying happiness while it should be about sustainability a higher purpose and uh long term listen please do know we are an important shackle as creatives as designers we are in the middle of a chain on one hand we have our clients the consumers and on the other hand we have the producers the manufacturers and the good news is we can influence both we have the power because we are in the middle of it to advice and to educate them both so to increase the demand for sustainable healthy products we can create a positive Jace and if we take good care of the planet the reward is Big the planets will take care of us but all these labels Concepts works like eco-friendly sustainable durable circularity green what does it mean I mean really for a long time I was searching for an absolute expert on this topic uh sustainability expert someone who not only talks about sustainability but actually has a solution who's taking action every single day someone who has created something that you can measure and know for sure if you are designing future proof and that someone is she deserves the spotlight Ankita lets architecture and design firms for top 1400 firms projects across the globe for 20 years but decided to leave the business as usual behind she had a bigger purpose a bigger calling to set up their organization the platform first planet Ankita devoted herself to transform the industry by breaking down its traditional walls and helping to embrace strengths change so definitely another podcast episode of the world beyond the terror design and welcome to you all and of course to our guest of today I'm excited and happy to have her Ankita
thanks Mark and uh really nice to meet you all and I'm very excited to share what I have been doing for a very long time and more recently as well yeah great yeah absolutely uh great to have you but um to be honest with you I'm uh pretty sure people will recognize this too I'm a designer I love nature and I care a great deal about Mother Earth so sustainable thinking yes think so but in practice that how well I don't know at least I do not enough and then I don't like that I know I can do more but how so glad you're here
you know what I really love about uh you know what you're doing and and the setup here is is essentially empowerment and empowerment is a very essential part of helping people even you know sort of join us on this journey of this transition that sort of awaits us right our construction industry we know is hugely polluting you know we know that about 40 of CO2 emissions result from building industry you know at all scales and if you just look at the stats right I'll give you some stats just to start with just in the UK you know I'm from London just in the UK you know about three million professionals you know in the construction industry that's everybody from designers to like contractors and you know all sorts of people subcontractors that are working on site you know they use 300 million tons of building materials and products every year so whether or not you know you design a building or you sketch it up or it's a great designer or not every building project uses materials and products and and the number of projects is astounding it's about 12 million projects per year in the UK If you imagine it's 63 million people and and 12 million projects but the most important part of that is that about 80 of this is very small scale projects right and a lot of them are Interiors projects which means it's little and often right it's little bits that is happening and at a massive scale now this is a huge amount of power in the hands of interior designers because I think the Interiors is actually something that people experience very closely and have an emotional connection with yeah but also it's always in transient so when people move from building to building they want to put their own stamp they don't change the whole building but they change the Interiors so so I think the first thing is to understand the scale of power that interior designers have which is massive um but also I think equally the scale of influence and the opportunity to change is also in the hands of interior designers so I think the first thing is to understand that it's not about we you know we don't really we're doing small scale projects it doesn't really matter it is a collective action of the whole community that will really really transform what people are making what people are choosing how people are building what's happening to stuff afterwards and and that is that is that is real power so uh when you said you know um about you know designers drawing uh you know not understanding that the lines at the drawn on pieces of paper are hugely significant and not just significant because it's a way it's not necessarily a reminder that you're not doing enough it is a reminder that you can do a lot with that right you can do a lot with that that you can actually transform the way a wall is is seen forever right it's like what is this you know so I think the first thing is to understand that there is power there that there is ability to influence yeah you had you had a really nice quote we were using it in our social media this weekend it all starts with understanding the power and significance of that one line we draw on a piece of paper and that that was really scary actually you said it so it's really I felt it it was like it is every every line means a lot in the construction process in the creation in the makeovers and we think we are just doing this small project like you said maybe just one it's changing one room but if you see all the cars coming on the driveway and the constructions and the demo and the demolishers and the all the producers and and all the packages that are entering the building for just the bathroom you're like okay yeah no absolutely and and I think what we forget is that those lines will use up resources that have been there for thousands of years it will use a huge amount of Labor and effort to put it together and then they will live beyond us and also the people who are paying for it you know and so it sort of extends you know it connects past present future in a way that even we don't fully understand it you know my background is of course also design and architecture and I worked in this space as a designer for many years I've worked in many Interiors projects and Architectural projects so I fully understand the speed at which things need to be done the complexity that needs to be considered in every project the demands that are uh you know that are put upon designers you know create experiences create memories create solve a spatial problem it has to be functional it has to work well um and it's it's it's never ending but equally that's the joy of the job as well because all of that relies Upon Our thinking and our doing and our you know Collective action in a way right we're moving that we we are helping people create um memories and and experiences right Comfort um and so adding this this sort of thinking around well sustainability isn't about a a checklist you know a box that you take and you've done it is actually fully embedded in everything that you do it's just just a part of your thinking right and that has been sort of the basis of all my work for many many years is is helping designers and non-technical people understand that that is that is an interwoven thing and there's ways of thinking you know there's certain things that you can do while you're working that you can embed that thinking in the process so you can't change outcomes if you change don't change processes right so that's pretty clear if you don't change the machine you're not going to have a different product yeah right so I think the first thing is to look at the process and the kinds of questions that we ask of ourselves and ask our clients to think about right so there's there's a set of things that we can do early early in the process so let me talk a little bit about that but Mark you you drive that you drive um the conversation and I'll I'll yeah yeah but I I yeah I know you have some really good questions and they're new for me so you just you just told me like I I would like to tell uh to share that uh with with your audience is that yeah well great so but uh for before we go because there's a what what what is the danger what what is it who's the enemy of sustainability because interior design hey you can see it as a need or is it or is it fashion what what is it so that that's really we have all these consumers and we have we are jumping from Trend to Trend and how do you see are we interacted with that yeah yeah see interior designers are always solving any design we're solving a problem you know any Innovation is solving a problem right the big problem that we have have is we have problems at many scale that in many times right so if you imagine anything that we do has an impact right so the impact could be negative it could be positive generally the goal of designers is positive impact right and you try to see where who are we impacting generally you try and see well we want to impact the people who are paying for this right our customers yeah sometimes we tend to think okay it's not just the immediate customers it's the people around the customer as well so you might think a little bit outside in the neighborhood okay how does this influence that but if you fundamentally look at it if you're solving a problem every everything that we do impacts us as at four main scales as as I said at the level of of course the human being right their health their well-being psychological physical mental which involves everything from function to experience there's a great thing yeah there's a great focus on that nowadays is it yeah absolutely and that is really important right to psychological health physical health mental health space problem all of those are Health experience human related right so that customer or that person or their family or their employees themselves right their bodies beyond that is a pocket right when you think of their pocket as like money right how much are we are they spending is it long term does it solve a financial problem for them right does it give them financial gain long term there's all sorts of things financially so that's like person and their pocket but beyond that beyond the boundary of that that physical sort of Realm we have people so the neighborhood or the Society of the community right so that anything that you do in the small scale has an influence on that scale and then ultimately all of that Aggregates and becomes an influence at the planetary scale so every decision that we make actually influences us at four scale so you could say the level of the environment Society our health the individual health and money right and whether or not we're thinking about it it's happening right so it's happening automatically that line that we draw on a piece of paper is doing that yeah not you cannot ignore the side effects yeah it's it's influencing at all four skills automatically right so if you think of like the smartest AI That's like telling you that's what's happening immediately right the thing is for us to tap into it a little bit more and maybe just broaden our set of questions and parameters and it's not necessarily uh something that should take a lot of time and that's what that's what I'm working on to make it very easy for people but you know there's there's this broadly a few questions that you can ask yourself right so to understand the consequences of your yeah to understand the consequences or also I would say putting a more positive spin on it to understand the opportunities all right right so so we have an opportunity to create positive impact or influence at all those scales because anything we do is anyway influencing all those skills right so how much positivity can we create in any of these areas so for example normally we think in how little money can we create the best experience right so we're thinking about two skills now usually you would think that you know others maybe in government or policy are really good at thinking of like planetary scale let's reduce your two missions and let's help communities they can't think of experience and and sort of pockets as much but again it's for all of us to sort of whatever our area of influence is to extend it a little bit in other other scales in other areas because those are opportunities and if you're able to tap those opportunities and bring them to the table it is a joy and Delight for everyone right I think and you can create more impact yeah absolutely and I think everybody now and I think especially people in the western world are you know informed enough Rich enough influential enough to care about these things I think most people do care some people may have slightly different goals some may care more about the health some may care more about their money some may care a lot about the environment somebody care a lot about the community but the the thing is that everybody wants positive impact right and and in a way we can tap into that we can pull them into thinking about positive impact in other scales through any one of their primary motivators right so for example if somebody really cares about the environment we can also engage them in the health agenda if somebody's really care it cares about their their physical you know we want a healthy home or we want a healthy office we can also talk about planetary Health right so so if we as designers are empowered we can help Empower other people to think of the influence of their decisions across scales Right In a reasonable sort of way not like saying we have to be the best in every area but it is to be aware of it and to consider it and bringing it bring it into the fold of complexity that we deal with and actually what you will find is that a lot of decisions a lot of complicated decisions that we need to make will become a lot clearer as a result of plugging into some of the bigger goals uh that that basically in a way create positive impact beyond that immediate investment it's it's kind of this this mindfulness in a way right so if you if you were to sort of tap into that sort of um an analogy you could say it is kind of mindful design but it doesn't have to be that terminology right people may or may not engage with that kind of terminology but the key thing is to understand that those influences are happening yeah right so to this ways of thinking about it well to interrupt you if people have any questions and you're joining us live right now you can uh put them in the chat at the end if you stick to the end uh we have uh well Ankita has a special gift for you as well uh and um you have a chance for the for a q a session to ask your own questions so uh please put them in the chat and then we can we we will continue with the conversation right now Nikita yes yes so so Mark just just again summarizing all of that uh is basically saying those things are happening how do we as designers tap into it right so that's kind of the primary question and and again you know there is a lot of complexity taken so if you actually think of everything in isolation there is a lot to think about right how do we reduce waste how do we reduce carbon how do we you know Buy Local there's so many different streams yeah and then you are blocking right then if if I think about all these kind of topics and I'm like how do I solve this on my own what what what's my first step to get there I don't know yeah exactly and I and I think there's a lot right and I think and and and I have a theory about it I think it's because it's so much the responsibility kind of Lies with everyone and no one right so everybody feels dumped with responsibility but inability to take action at this yeah and and who do who do we blame exactly and then it's like either we fully blame ourselves or we don't take any blame right it's always All or Nothing mentality and that's what I'm really against right I'm really against this All or Nothing mentality because it's really a roadblock for for thought and Innovation and better decision making because there is no perfect solution there is no perfect product there is no perfect concept there is no perfect building right it all depends on what is happening where it's happening who's building it and what the project is and what the opportunities on that project were right so you can't say a skyscraper is green and a Hut is green they had completely different parameters right and and you can't say this is a gold and this is a gold like the gold within the framework of what that and this is good in the framework of what this was right so are you telling me yeah are you telling us that you have to take care of your own expertise your own field your own small part in the whole absolutely so I think it's about reducing the noise and not feeling burdened by the responsibility but by feeling excited about the opportunities right and every project has its set of parameters and its set of opportunities now what I uh so Jen you can say okay what are the areas of influence for a designer right the heiress that actually a designer can really influence it is of course how the space is put together right it is of course what you choose how you How It's Made and how it's detailed um but what I would say without the Frameworks they say you're not going for a green building right nobody's telling you to do a Green Building you don't have a lead Preamble whatever certification to meet nobody's asking you for anything how what are the ways in which you can conceptually think about you know designing or laying out your plans that'll help get you to think sustainably in a fundamental way right so I have five five key points for you to take away right so Mark I'm gonna I'm gonna dump these points and then we can we can talk about these briefly but I just want to talk about conceptually how you need how you could think to to build some of that into your your daily activity right so every project you can Empower yourself you can also take these questions to your clients you can take it to your teams but I would encourage you to take these on board on every project that you're doing right so for example yeah the first question and it's a fundamental question to ask for interior designers is are we building a shed or are we building a pyramid right what does that mean is this project going to last two years three years four years is it going to last a thousand years and the reason for that is that if it is a short-term project if the experience is being built for short term you should use products and materials and systems and methods that are either super super easy to uninstall are super super degradable or super super renewable if you're building something for a thousand years the conceptually you will use materials that are quite energy intensive that are durable that potentially are also versatile that are meant that easy to maintain and replace and it's a fundamentally different way of building and thinking a very important part and I would encourage you to ask your clients that as well now sometimes what happens is in a project you will find that different building elements will either be sheds or pyramids right so you would say the foundation of something or a structural wall is a pyramid and you can say well actually you know this space this office space is leased only for five years right it's not a long time why do we need to put in stone flooring here right this is not going to be something that's going to be ripped out after some time or if you're doing like porcelain tiles how are we actually going to replace that right so it's a fundamental question in retail this happens a lot right retail has high Churn it thinks very expensive materials very very high embodied energy processed materials or even very rare natural stones Woods go in and then they're ripped out right so luxury and design Aesthetics and Trends are set by you guys you can make anything look good that's not the point here right you can make anything look good good to hear that people what good looks like right and and that is a fundamental premise right so the first thing is is it a shed or a pyramid either the whole project or different parts within a building you can even break that down so important question the next two number two is 2.4 by 1.2 now this is a ratio of most boards it is a tatami mat when we build with Furniture we don't think of chopping a Furniture right but we think nothing of taking a building material and chopping it up and making it fit into what we need and that creates a huge amount of waste right if we were to think of a module of a material as a module and we respect that module and we find the right module for the right job it's a really important part also when you think of those you know modules these modules and versatile materials can be then taken out and used elsewhere so modularity is a really really important part especially in Interiors because again the churn can be quite fast and also the movability and changeability and replaceability of things is really important so 2.4 by 1.2 again important question I mean it's a number but it could be anything respect to the sizes that things come in and build with those sizes and again it depends on the detailing right now if you have a room you can always detail in a way that there's no of Cups there's no rubbish there's no waste you design with that in mind sometimes the larger the tiles we have the bigger the panels we have the less seams that we want in things the more of cuts it creates because you can't actually fit it if there's something wrong so there's a way of detailing that will then reduce waste it'll be designed for disassembly the fundamentals of sustainability now this is a joy to work with right it's it's a problem to solve it's not like a burden of sustainability or carbon the other thing is I love to say this is reclaim reuse reclaim reuse so again reclaim reuse reclaim reuse so it's not just about reclaiming something once it's about reclaiming something that can then be reused afterwards as well and then again reclaiming something that can be reused afterwards and it's a cycle of that and of course you wherever there is a potential for that it should be introduced whether it is 10 of a project 20 of a project 30 of a project up to you but there are so many creative opportunities with that and they're such great examples especially you know in Europe especially you know if you look at Super use there's so many inspirational things where you can take complete waste of something you know I've seen facades made out of orange crates I've seen playgrounds made out of you know um you know with the these uh windmill Wings you could you can there's never ending creativity I mean no there's all this oh there's plastic from the plastic soup the fishnets I saw yeah this is the furniture chairs with ways of using components as themselves not expecting them to be recycled by someone else and then we reuse it it's finding these these products and creating with them in mind and then we have this creative processing sorry yeah then we have this then we have this this anime of butcher because most of the most of the time the most sustainable chairs well let's see if you have last time I saw an award-winning sustainable chair was great or made of the plastic soup and whatever all kinds of plastic but locally uh locally uh a local source of the plastic and but the chair was 300 Euros a piece so if you have a dining table with eight years well gowns come with me if you have to choose a chair for maybe 50 euros on a on a on a Boulevard on a shopping mall that's a problem but I was I I had the same conversation with the guy of this chair I said why is it so expensive then and he said just one answer the demand is too low for this and there are way too less producers and manufacturers of these projects so you have an important job as a designer if you increase the demand for those projects the price will lower you have more of this kind of more of these products on the market and you can design way more sustainable and healthy so no absolutely and that's kind of where I'm going with all of this is this kind of design thinking ultimately leads if you would if you actually dive deeper well ultimately lead you to certain questions and those are the questions we're asking and trying to answer through first planet as well but conceptually these are the things that are really important that only you can do right a manufacturer cannot ask these questions they cannot actually find you know whether their material is right for the client or for the project or for that particular concept right it is only something that you guys can do right then therefore these things are really important so he said that the design the designer or the architect or the the Creator they know the parameters how to measure if it's a really sustainable product because if you if you can take a recycled chair and you you order it in Australia and you're living in the on the other side of the world it's not sustainable anymore again the the question of sustainability as well you know there's so many ways to look at it and Mark I will answer your your that question that you've just raised because it's a very very important one and actually it's it's it's these dilemmas that we have like are we if we do this then it's not sustainable if we do that it's not the same and it's different for different people right so I'll I'll address that all right all right but I'll I'll tell you I'll tell you three other points that I have so you know just repeating Shadow pyramid 2.4 by 1.2 recycle reuse recycle reuse then the third thing the fourth thing is really you know life beyond life so design for disassembly super important right how we put these things together now if you're fundamentally thinking of the things I told you before you know Shadow pyramid you're building in modules and you're thinking of reusing something and working with it design for disassembly will automatically fall into place because you will know that it comes in modules you will know that this is something that's either degradable rapidly or it's very durable and you will know whether you want to reuse it later or not and you will then then think about it that okay I'm buying it fresh now I'm buying a virgin material I want to make sure that this material is reusable after this project which is maybe lasts 20 years what happens to it so using screws instead of glues using new ways and creating new ways of clipping and binding and tying things together not necessarily gluing and fusing things together really really important part of design right so product designers know that you know but interior designers as well if they're things that are coming together how can they be separated out can we keep it clean enough right very very important part and the last thing number five is looking around the corner and what do I mean by that looking around the corner basically means that there's new technologies that are coming up there's new systems that are coming up I'm talking about things like fancy 3D printing I'm talking about really cool robotics that can really look at parametric design in a fundamental way now why is that linked to sustainability not necessarily because they're cool and they're they're efficient they still use energy but because these new systems can take traditional products and configure them in new ways in a repetitive way that becomes very interesting and very engaging so you can basically use and there's lots of examples of this I think big did a pavilion with like a single so you can use modular pieces and you can repeat them in interesting ways you can look at you know using offcuts of wood and assemble them in interesting ways you can create walls you can create screens you can create different different experiences by new technologies but traditional materials it may not be concrete fused together it may not be some of these things but the modularization and basically the you know the ability for something to be parametric parametrically designed is very powerful combination so I would say utilize those things because they will fundamentally drive you to thinking sustainable sustainably you know they will think they will get you outside that box of I've just drawn this somebody will sell else will come and build it and then something else will happen to it you know so being creative in what that is will fully help you so there are five points right and I would say if you're thinking about these Five Points fundamentally you're making a massive difference in a particular space of life cycle of any material which is how you're choosing it when it's being built how it's been used and how it's been disassembled that is your area of influence right yeah the disassembly yeah disassembling is always a thing is like okay um I I we are always designing for the long term so I'm it's not the best business model if you look at an interior design office that the clients are still happy after 10 years 12 years 15 years almost now with the first interior designs I've I've created they don't call me for a new one they're still happy in it so that that's great so but the the the deconstruction that part I never took care of that how can you yeah how can you redo it if they want to make out for small changes do we have to screw it or do we have to rip it off the wall and it demolish it because it's glued yeah glue with a screw it it's a really cool one yeah yeah and so these are the things that you all interior designers can mandate so I'm only talking about areas that you can influence you cannot tell a manufacturer how to make a material you cannot tell a politician or a local Authority how to deal with waste you cannot convince a client to become you know carbon neutral you cannot convince them of any of those things but this is something that you can do and you can encourage them to think about that because it's exciting it's engaging it's creative and it's fundamentally sustainable well we all we we are writing the the whole the scratching the whole handbook we have a complete handbook with all the shopping lists the products and all the all the details but you can add the section with how to how to do the the Audi Shades the Montage the I have to put it I had to add it to the wall or how to how to fix it how to yeah together how did how do you assemble something how do you assemble and yeah and I've said again pink screws I've even given you some hints think screws things think Clips things binding think think how how knitting Works how embroidery Works how thread can you know how you can use certain systems right to put things together and and tie them together there's many many new products coming into the market now structurally to tie things up use those and encourage those and celebrate them maybe even showcase them in some way right which then starts to create a mindset of like yeah we don't need to just glue everything together and not worry about it you know be particular about it um and and I think that is part of the job it is part of the joy of being a designer of course clients might say this is too much it's too expensive fine but at least you've engaged with it you have uh you know considered as conceptually and fundamentally and from there all great things happen right yeah you made them you made them aware I'm thinking stems from these types of things right and it's not about a knee jerk of like just doing one thing you know oh let's let's actually procure everything locally you may not get everything locally and also sometimes local materials are extremely polluting and extremely unhealthy right it and and you cannot weigh these things out that easily of course we built first planet for that but it's it's challenging to take that complexity into consideration when you're designing but these are the things that you can do right of course this is like fundamentals you start with that and you know make it part of your discussion we had a we had a we were advising a carpets uh and the carpet was really it was a completely recycled and the thing is if you want to reuse the car but if they don't like it anymore they don't have to they don't need to bring it to the to a normal landfill of put it in a bin when it's a really good project why it has all those certificates because it said we can reuse it but they they need to know where to bring it and that was that's another problem that's a it's a another level how to educate your clients and really and another thing to add in your in your handbook or manual however whatever you call it as a as an advisor as an interior designer add a subscription if you want to get rid of those this carpet you need to bring it over there so they can fully reuse it otherwise it's the the circularity is gone and then it's well it's more more green washing or a kind of marketing thing you're a marketing trick you're doing yeah absolutely I think and and you've touched upon something that that we're working very hard at to simplify for people right uh at first planet so so I would say the basics if you've covered the basics then you can go into the details right you can say okay we have conceptually considered this right that's what we're doing fundamentally we will design for disassembly we will reuse x amount of things let's make that part of the concept and or at least try and introduce it somewhere in a small way in every project we do right or we could do say if you're doing 10 projects one project will be you know we will really push for this in five projects where we see the client a little bit interested right that's where we go in so do little and more often yeah yeah yeah you can go in or you can just say little and often little and often we just slowly change the way we do stuff right so I think the next thing is understanding what a material is and what a material isn't it's a very complicated space right so again I've been in this space in this in this kind of thinking for a very long time there's no perfect material there's no perfect product again it's the right product for the right job in the right place for the right situation how do you figure that out and that's been my main question with first planet and we've tried to solve that that question for people so again going back to the point like fundamentally every decision every paint we choose every carpet we choose every wallpaper we choose impacted many scales automatically so what I always I I I describe this this kind of sustainability topic right like I always said I wish there was a kind of product passport that I knew where it was coming from and that someone was measuring it I don't know how to measure it you you just get you see some kind of marketing that that is durable and green and sustainability been I don't I don't know if is it really true are they honest to me when is it really green how do I need to use it or yeah so you have you have a solution for that so I really would love to dive into your uh yeah yeah so we've been I've been working at it for many many years I would say parts of what you see in first planet now um I started working on it maybe 15 years ago and it's been iteration and iteration iteration again you know as I said I was a designer I was uh you know European head of sustainability for a very big design firm called Gensler primarily interior design firm and there are lots and lots of designers there and we were always thinking like how can we improve you know what how we're talking to clients what we're choosing fast because everything is fast right there's some time to explore and study each thing in detail we're not Material scientists you know but because I was doing studies on sustainability with various universities SDS in writing papers so a researcher as well as a designer you know I wore many hats and I could see these things where there's bits of knowledge floating around and it needed to be simulated and synthesized and simplified and information standardized to stop greenwashing again these things like I don't know it's green or it's not green it's good is it good is it bad so what we've done with first planet is to make it super is easy and as you say Mark we've created this sort of food nutrition label for every product and material that at the moment we have about fifteen hundred to two thousand listed so we're still in beta so it's a very very new tool and I would love for all of you to try it but we have created a methodology for synthesizing and simplifying this complexity that exists like I mentioned earlier you don't know if a locally made product is healthy or toxic or durable or versatile or low carbon right there's sometimes there's certain properties in certain materials and other properties and other materials now as a designer what you need to know is you have certain parameters like I want for example you've decided we're building a pyramid I want a durable material right that is also versatile which means that I can use it in many parts of a building but I want it to be low carbon right because I am conscious and I want to be locally made now you cannot find products based on these parameters because the information around these definitions wasn't standardized so what me and my research team have been working on is to standardize this information so what does durability mean at what point can you call something durable what does low carbon mean at what point can you call something low carbon so we have curated about 21 impact parameters on every product so like food nutrition label right you pick up a label and you see sugar carb protein whatever whatever we have simplified in a one place what each material is right and very easily whether or not it has a certain property for quick quick exploration right so you don't have to see the number if you read 7 kgco2e you may or may not understand is it low is it high I don't know you know if it's one product is saying it's durable at like five years another product is saying it has a warranty of 20 years okay which one is more durable right like it's like it's like with Foods whether it has no sugar doesn't mean it's healthy exactly exactly exactly right there's there's all these and also fundamentally if there is a distribution so you need to know what those numbers mean so we've translated what those numbers mean standardized it published it and it's a it's an open source semi-open source library for everyone to use and tap into you can see qualitatively what it means we also have the numerical value the data on the back end so the really technically minded people want to see that so we give them access but normally most people are like all right we just want to know whether it's this it's enough complexity to deal with so we have a few nutrition label for every material and product and and what we are planning to do is also include things like you know solar panels appliances fittings because it's water usage electricity usage Etc now there's different parameters to consider but essentially what we have combined is this in one label we have combined parameters that impact the environment impact Society impact our health and impact money and again going back to whether or not we want it we are creating an impact right in these areas every time we choose a material it has an impact in all these areas so we've created an impact index after the food nutrition label and the impact index tells you gives you a score of its impact positive impact on the environment Society Health Department so you can quickly see okay in this project our agendas Health you can drive your searches through an overarching Health agenda whether or not you're going in for a certification whether or not you have any mandates you can say this product Health score is higher than that means this is a healthier product you can see sometimes that healthier product will also score really well in the environmental area will also score really well in the money area would also have a positive impact in society because they're of course interlinked what is good in one area is good in the other but sometimes you will see they're not sometimes the focus has been heavily in manufacturing say reducing carbon but it still has high toxicity right so so essentially because these are the four primary parameters we have created that index now that becomes a super easy thing to now go in and delve into and on the back of that there's a huge amount of research yeah I I wasn't I I wasn't there I logged in and I was surprised on how precisely you uh you could you could determine if it's a healthy product or a sustainable product or not um I really was you see all these brands of kind of paints hey you never know you have you have you can you can see all this trendy paint Brands you have no clue if it's healthy or not and you have a really well you are you told me you are asking them really questions if people have any doubts about the about the brand or the product you add it to the library and you you and your team are doing research and you are asking for the for all the specifications and you need to prove to you if it's true or not yes absolutely so so there's many materials libraries out there right so you'll find many materials libraries that focus on different things for us it's we haven't built just a materials Library we've built a whole planner around that right because what we know is to to become Greener to meet green targets right especially for for any business or any organization you need to prove at some point you've done some green right so you can also help your clients celebrate that so what what we are what we're doing is we are actually you know sort of helping recommend certain products based on certain questions on the project so you can plan a whole project right so for example if you enter a few bits of detail where the project is what type of project you're doing what the Project's goals are we can then start to recommend okay based on these parameters try and think of these strategies right for example if you're working on an interior kitchen remodeling you don't need to think about solar panels unless the kitchen is a new extension at the back with the roof right you you need to think about certain things within the kitchen that you can do and because we're working so fundamentally at the level of each product we have unpacked its properties and modeled it at the at the micro decision level we can then basically connect our algorithms back to those big strategies so for example reducing waste we would link you to products that have an end-of-life plan like you were saying is there a take back scheme we will link you to things that are designed for disassembly whether it's appliances fixtures fittings things that you would buy we will link you to things that are versatile which means they have a high potential of reusability we might link you to things that are durable again high potential for but we will not link you necessarily to things that have released recycled content which is great as a pre-existing you know um property but it's not a potential to reduce waste at the end of its life right it's it still depends on what you do with it it still needs to be versatile it still needs to be designed for disassembly so so what so that planning then you know it's a very easy process and you can also put in costs you know the tables where you can just very it's very very easy to use tool you can also co-create you can invite your clients you can invite your cost consultant and it's a multiplayer environment which basically means that it's not one person's job no you have to get buy-in from many people to to get this thing through whether it's your contractor you need to understand costs you need your clients involvement and ultimately also we deliver analytics right so real numbers on what has been done good on this project yeah that's so great that's so great about it there there is proof of yeah not a kind of ideas or dreaming about sustainability or it's it's literally it's it's what you are doing you can measure it you you find what you're doing you can measure it in whatever way you can celebrate those small decisions yeah right with small better decisions and we also pre-model some impact compared to base cases so for example if you're picking on alternative paint right you can do simple searches like I want to find a locally made low carbon low toxic fire rated paint right and you can find it because we have performance criteria in the same mix as environmental health criteria because we everything that we had to worry about in the past all that is not gone away right we still have to make buildings that will remain standing there you know they have to meet code you know they still have to do those things yeah because of Maintenance yeah the maintenance is really important as well right you told me you told me in the first meeting most of the buildings right now huh or in 2015 already exists yeah 80 of the buildings that is today yeah Will exist in 2050. amazing right so if you think about it only 20 of the buildings will be new and after the project is built and this is more about you know I would say baseball architecture or or full architecture the the the running and maintenance of that building and the churn and the Interiors along the life cycle of that building is way more than The Upfront uh you know sort of the impact so the Interiors actually is like a huge part of the embodied impact of any project and of course Interiors also influences operational impact all your appliances your light fittings all the systems and all the things that you do are all running I mean there's a thing that I used to laugh about many years ago people used to say oh my God this is a you know energy intensive building I would like no actually buildings don't you use energy people do right if it's not the building is using it it's human behavior it's our activity it's our choices that's what is creating the energy crisis yeah don't blame the building that's doing it right yeah so actually what you do in the Interiors of course besides your big you know if it's a big big building you'll have you know your air handling units and all of that you know systems like Building Systems But ultimately the power and the sensors and the devices and the appliances are all in the Interior Space yeah it's really complex but you you managed to make it really easy and I'm glad that you like to to solve the this this thing because you need a lot of passion for it to to to solve this because there's so many factors are involved so many parameters and you managed to create a team to unite all these people from from designers to constructions and buildings and I think uh well you know you told me you're just you're just starting it feels like that and it needs to to grow and grow so um well you have um you have a cool gift for the people who are listening right now the postcard is it yeah well I was thinking you know when Mark said well we were speaking to interior designers I would love to offer you all like a free free project on first planet which means some of the features if you go in are locked so we'll unlock those features so if you want access to that just let me know send me a note and uh we'd love to hear your feedback and I would really like for you guys to test something out to try out some things at high level that I've shared of course you know those five points that I've said they're not they're not part of first planet that's just something that for you guys to figure but once you're looking for specific materials in products and their properties you could go to first planet and explore that but I would love to hear your feedback and try it out and give us notes we're in beta right now so we will be releasing our tool in about a month month and a half time we've been building for more than three years so this is not like a quick project and of course with the research from over you know 10 12 years put into it um and we've been working with quite a lot of big organizations but we really really think this tool will help interior designers independent designers Property Owners engaging with them helping them participate the little and often jobs will really benefit from this because generally there aren't any sustainability consultant on these teams there's a lot of time pressure there's a little bit of money you know all of those constraints are there but it doesn't actually decrease the amount of influencing power that these projects have so it's really about helping everyone you know do whatever they can do and celebrate that thing and share it with their clients share it with their teams talk about it you know put something up in your own websites and say yeah we're doing something about it because we can yeah we uh we will prepare a link uh uh for the easier login and to contact you uh Ankita that will be uh institute of attorney impact.com Ankita that will be a little live today after live show and we put the information there to contact you and uh to get a free uh login and I would yeah well if if you're not if you don't have a project or you don't want to start an old Project online over there please have a look and see what's going on over there it makes you aware of a lot of things so do do the research Let's test it out see what's see what's going on over there because it makes you yeah makes you really aware of the power you have as a as a designer and if after this uh the postcards yeah so what's what's do you have a kind of well the first thing to start with this because it's still it's a big big huge story you know we know we have to act on it because otherwise we're going in the wrong direction with this planet but what's the first thing you how can we start if we are designing after this podcast of even listening well during this podcast and you are designing how do you well I would say you know listening to Mark's uh you know podcasts I think they're very inspiring and staying connected with each other and and continuing to think and and continuing to ask you know I think one of the things that I've learned through my research over the many years it's not so important to have the answer but it's most important to have a really good question to ask you know that's it and and and I would say by asking questions of yourself and of your clients you know that is really the the most important starting point is just asking how about this you know what are we doing here why don't we do it in this way and it's in it's an invitation uh uh that that helps people come together and participate in a solution that ultimately delivers positive impact in many areas and the thing is that designers are intrinsically good at synthesizing complexity and working with pre-existing conditions right this is it's an astoundingly powerful I mean I'm saying that some of the most creative and some of the most Progressive people that I've I've met you know who can really take in lots of complexity and create something that's unknown actually it's quite hard for a lot of people you know now that I'm not primarily in the interior designer design field I see that outside how challenging it is for a lot of people to do what I think comes naturally to designers so I think that puts I think all of you in a very serious driving you know power and never underestimate the power of just one or two questions yeah great yeah there are so many takeaways uh in what you've told us uh today on Kita it's it's actually not about saving a planet because the planet will continue with it or without us that's right that's absolutely right yeah it's all about people inspiring other people to make the best most informed choices they can design to design the the healthiest way they can and to enjoy this beautiful planet and everything it has to offer so uh thank you Ankita um I feel so grateful to be able to uh make your voice louder to share your message with our Global uh Beyonce tarot design Community you're looking for giving us uh you know the chance to talk to everyone I'm very excited to hear from everyone here as well and yeah you have an amazing uh platform and it's really great to see interior designers coming together it's generally not a group of people that tends to stick together like there is actually a firm I was talking to um a startup that's trying to build a a tool for interior designers I was like where do you find them they never congregate you know so it's really great to see that you're able to pull people together in this space because it's so important yeah great yeah the last just to know because on the on the 10th of December last year we were on uh 170 000 people were joining our LinkedIn group and uh yesterday we reached the 174 000 so in in 50 days 4 000 new members are joining the beyond the terrazine group so there is something going on here I get goosebumps from that and I stand up really happy every day when I see this this group growing almost with hundreds of 100 people a day amazing so the maps of Mark that's very great work yeah there is Good Hope for the for the for for what we are doing now we are thinking how we are designing people are a really craving for the days these days to to do whatever they can do then they know that we have the power to design a world as as the creators of beautiful things yeah and we owe it to ourselves and the rest of the world to do the right thing we have this we have this power we know it and you you just showed us we have this power with this one line we are drawing on a piece of paper so yeah you're doing it for me and and on top of that I think designers can make anything look beautiful the the point is the question is why is this beautiful right and I think that the definition of that is also shifting very rapidly something is beautiful because you can do you know it it has like you say a lot more meaning purpose also impact you know what what can it do beyond what it's doing you know what what does it do Beyond it it's it's primary function it's got us it's got it way more functions it's got way more influences again looking you know at small decisions impacting the big scale very quickly and and cross-connecting I think that's so important and that's kind of I think where everybody I feel is intuitively probably feeling that in some way you know wanting to do it in some way that's the direction for design in a way but again there need to be enough tools enough support so that those bespoke Solutions can be made and so what we're trying to do is just help everyone make those bespoke Solutions and celebrate the benefits right because we can't scale we can never automate design in that way it has to be bespoke it is contextualized and it's not something that's one size fits all at all again that's not sustainability right it is the mindfulness so the tools need to support that selection and decision making rather than make the decisions for people yeah and you developed a house so uh thanks for that you're doing an amazing job and you have a plan and you are creating real impact uh to unite everybody thanks again Nikita