EP 021 - What we can learn from large brands II - with Kristoff d'Oria di Cirie

We’re going to discover the importance of communication for interior designers. But we’ll also discuss how to balance practicality and aesthetics, the impact of artificial intelligence, the creation of unique, experiential spaces along with the trend of reconnecting with nature, and the role of technology in design.

🔥 What does the future of the interior design industry look like?
🔥 What’s the impact of technology on interior design and how to use it?
🔥 Why designing for people’s emotions is so important?
🔥 How to create timeless designs that evoke emotions and memories?
🔥 Why empathy and understanding your client is so important in the interior design process?
🔥 How artificial intelligence influences everything in our design?
🔥 What is the deal with perfection in design?
🔥 Why interior designers have to create unique and memorable experiences?
🔥 How to use technology in interior design without losing the personal touch?
🔥 What are the benefits and challenges of collaborating with 3D artists?

More info and goodies on http://instituteofinteriorimpact.com/branding

Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB

Transcript

I think the key the key process that they need to keep in mind is the why um it doesn't matter which tool you use if you want to draw draw if you want to use a mid-journey use it it's fine um if you want to learn 3D design skills that would be great but all of them will be pointless unless you focus on the why and you focus on the end feeling

and that's it [Music]

hey it's not the first time he's live on the beyond the terror design podcast in the previous episode he expanded our creative Horizons already on how to differentiate your interior design studio your brand in a combative Marketplace and here he is again to talk with us about how we interro designers can draw lessons from large Brands I'm talking about Christoph Toria di Siri Christoph is a creative director hospitality and Retail interior designer and brand experience designer and today we're going to dive deep into the key principles that come for you to successful Ontario designs we'll uncover the current trends and Technologies shaping the future of our industry and most importantly we'll discuss how interro designers can position themselves and express their Creative Vision Beyond clients briefs but before we kick off this exciting conversation don't forget to subscribe to our podcast share it with fellow design enthusiasts and leave us with a review to let us know your thoughts your sport means the world to us so now let's welcome our esteemed guest to the show and Embark this brand new episode of beyond the tail design here it is we are so happy to have him again Christoph dolida be silly pleasure mark thank you for having me again yeah welcome back yeah I can't wait to delve into the topics of today with you Kristoff so because well ultimately our goal is to help interior designers to set up their firms to experience the creative freedom the Financial Freedom we all cherish so um well let's let's reflect on our previous episode we have discussed uh the marketing element authenticity yeah used a lot but not always the right way I guess I could say that the honest way right the honest way the sincere way the sincere way yes about uh how to express a unique design Vision Your Design principles like we uh like we call it how to express the impact you want to make with confidence

um we discussed how to act and behave like a large brand because what is it that they're doing what is that they are communicating and even more important why why do they behave that way what are what are the benefits did I forget something I think he got it all um I think we're on a roll that day but uh I had to run so hopefully hopefully I can fill the gaps today yeah and and what what is it what is it that we can learn from those those Brands because they have and you could say um when you're working with large Brands yeah or you are Alliance Branch you have clients and customers with big budgets maybe uh well not unlimited time unfortunately you have more just a limited time but you have maybe a bigger budget so how um yeah how is that related to maybe self-employed interior designers that have last budget from the clients well I think I think it's important to remember that big brands are also spending a lot of time thinking about how they can feel more personable um they can feel very intimidating and unapproachable and actually a lot of work goes into positioning them as Brands as entities that you know and can trust um so for small Studios or independent designers this isn't a handicap this is actually your superpower and you just need you need to appreciate it and leverage the skills that you do have yes you're not going to have a team of 50 designers um or mbas who can turn out you know sketches in a day but what you can do is you can do something with a big Brands struggle to do and this is really understand your user and your clients in the most intimate way because the spaces that we design are Intimates they are the places that we live we're the places that we grow and the places that we dream in and this is a really important responsibility that we have so I think actually that on reflection the thing that we can learn most from Big Brands is that they want to be a little bit more like us that's the good news yeah yeah wonderfully said yeah so um well let's let's start with this this part two we're going to dive more in the in the future of our industry so uh we're going to talk a little bit about the technology and the way we should behave what how we are going to work with that because there's a lot going on the time it goes all so fast and there seems to be another movement that we wanted so slow that's the other side hey we want to have a slow life and everything is going so fast so that's we have we have to deal with that and I think we can uh well maybe we can solve it today uh a little bit had to have at least a kind of strategy to to see it how you can see those uh yeah developments and I think you're right to call it a strategy rather than uh you know here are the rules for what you need to do because as you said it's it is moving so quickly and anything I say today is likely to be out of date um very quickly um maybe next month uh maybe sooner than that who knows but um I think it's it's really about having a mindset and having the flexibility work with other people you don't need to understand everything um and actually it actually would affect your work if you try to be too many things but I provided the document that I hope will be helpful to people on how to collaborate with different visual artists to to uh to make use of these Technologies even if you don't want to do it yourself yeah yeah yeah you prepared a very nice sheet but yeah with a kind of overview we uh we will add it to your uh to your landing page uh Institute of a Terry impact.com branding go to all the information about you and we will uh yeah we will add the download over there so um well let's dive into the what

well right now the now the fundamental fundamental principles that will contribute to successful interior design

um I think everything um I think the only thing I can recommend which is going to be constant from now to Infinity will be to design for people's emotions designed for the way that people feel this is something that a computer and AI will never understand um they might be able to process they might be able to say something like okay here are a hundred rooms that make people feel a certain way and create something that resembles it somehow but that's different to understanding a person and feeling what they feel and then design from that feeling it's completely different and this this is all superpower and this is the only way that we can stay ahead of the industry yes we can use tools yes we can take advantage of them to work faster or help us to help us to solidify certain kind of ideas that just swim around and never seem to come together but never rely on them because they aren't as good as you no not not yet maybe yeah they can learn they no they'll never be no they never will because I think you can have an idea about what sort of designs might elicit certain feelings but every single person is an individual yeah this might work for for very big brands or very big organizations who have to accommodate for maybe tens of thousands of people or hundreds of thousands of people yeah you're talking about one box one audience one yeah so they have to work in averages and generalities and I think this is something that AI could do in the future but to know your clients to know that your clients you know picks up their kids from football practice at this time and then they always have this snack and da da da da da da da only you can do this yeah and I think as generative AI becomes more more common in our industry I think it's necessary to step back from from the actual visual part of it and to design purely from the feeling and I think this is something that interior designers in particular have been very guilty of for a long time which is going straight to Pinterest or going straight to Instagram and saying wow this is amazing I want something like this but maybe in blue yeah yeah yeah and that that isn't designed no you're starting maybe on the on the on the wrong side because yeah I think uh all those beautiful pictures uh yeah once you told me like you can get lost in your fantasy because you can scroll for hours it's never it's a never-ending you know maybe maybe people are downloading more more faster than you can read all those all the yeah all the all the posts and all the content so I think it's good to use it at the end maybe that's how we used a little bit if you ever really detailed you want a solution for something then you can get the inspiration absolutely but this still isn't designed this is this is decorating to me yeah ah for me designing is understanding the feeling yeah and working from there because everything else is the call everything else is going to go out of style everything else is going to break yeah I think that's never going to break is the feeling the way that and the memories that are generated and and formed within space yeah we know we know all these stories for sure with our clients they're talking about a table that all the Christmas dinners were there all the parties and they really want to keep it some designers say well it's not fitting in the new style and I don't like the table I know but then I'm always like hey who are you you are the designer right you can make this work sell the table sell the table in a in a new decor no you're absolutely right you are absolutely yeah and I I always we always Swan and I uh we ever hey you know we have our own interior design company and we're always fighting and it's it's for years already that we are creating spaces environments interior designs and our clients are so happy they're they got so much fulfillment from it even after I have a client uh I start I I did a design in 2008 and they still have the same living room but that's wonderful yeah it's and that's wonderful but it's always like hey you're it's not well that one it was portfolio proof as you can call it because that's another issue with designers they want portfolio approved material that's why they want to stick till the end and doing all the details even the client didn't don't want all the details but they do they're doing that and yeah it's a bad way to think about it this idea of portfolio approved design um yeah if your story if I want some portfolio and you had a a small text saying we did this with a client and he doesn't want to change it for eight years he keeps it the same and he loves it because of this this for me this is real design when we open our design books and we look at designs from the 17th century or the 50s or or whatever we're not too concerned about whether it's in fashion anymore we're concerned about the timelessness of the space that's been created yeah and I think we're sort of entering an era where Trends are moving too quickly to keep up with anyone I mean if you look at Tick Tock I think the teenagers have style trends that move every week it's yeah quick um and in this environment I think the question of being on trend is no longer relevant I think that it's a Fool's errand and to go back to our first discussion you have to be really authentic with yourself and put your flag in the ground and say this is my design this is what I do yeah these are the feelings and the moments that I can create for you that's my feeling yeah yeah it's it's definitely our starting point connecting with with their emotions getting to know the bigger why behind because if you tap on those feelings intuitions emotions associations this inner world if you understand that if your client feels understood you are raising your value so much as an entire designer they they they will tell you you're my guides okay maybe the investment is big but guide me I know uh we get to the end result that it's so fulfilling amazing lifestyle or my business will uh when like crazy or the company culture will uh you'll be the company culture of my dreams I always envisioned yeah and it's it's again yeah you're talking about emotions but that's well it's hard to deal with emotions and then if they're a design process yeah that's most of the time all the frustrations are coming from there the client now now he's changing the idea now it now the feelings have changed how yeah and on the other hand when people are crying at the end results you are so happy and fulfilled as an interior designer yeah yeah it is a complicated process um and I think you have fewer of those kind of emotional battles in commercial design obviously because um people aren't as invested as they would be in their home um but I think having the correct level of empathy and accepting that this is the journey and trying not to resist that too much will make things much easier for you because I think yeah we especially you know at the very early we get very excited and fixed on these are my mood boards these are the references this is one I will create and we actually forget that it is a journey it is a it's a story that's being told yeah it's very very stupid when you're here uh well sorry to say it's very stupid but I I really are frustrated about that when when designers are talking about the design process and they created a mood board and you say well the the Michael Knight agreed on that on the mood board and then I worked out the whole design in detail and then they didn't like it anymore they were changing their idea and I'm like did you know why they like the mood part yeah why what was that the deeper level of why they say yes to you in that mood board what was it but but and when they don't have the answer I'm like okay you needed to know the why if you need if you knew the why you could even uh design something something else completely different than their first idea they told you they they told you they want that they wanted that you know it's it's never it's with our clients is never the first impression or idea they are showing us no never never and if it was if it wasn't we we cut out the journey and we just said here's the mood board yeah let's be honest Mark we could go on to Pinterest we could go on to Mid Journey right now yeah make some images and say okay here it is and then we don't need the designer anymore yep yeah so that's again another uh confirmation that we need to tap into the emotions yeah we need to tap even deeper and um well the good thing is you get a complete other level with your clients you're connecting on a deeper level yeah um I can tell you from my own experience you have way more fulfillment if you're designing that way your relationships will with clients will be so much greater because you you truly understand them they understand you so your design process even when it can switch from idea to idea but you're building up step by step you can end up with version 1.2 literally because you have a kind of improving process and it's not switching from a Esthetics to another static or from a visual to another visual yeah you know speaking outside of the relationship and soft stuff from a very hard commercial point of view this approach helps us in two ways the first is if you can build this if you can understand their emotions and build this intimacy with your clients they're less likely to resist you if if they understand that you that you care about them and you want it to be a good result for them and it's not just about your ego and it's not just about you creating a wonderful piece for your portfolio they are less likely to resist you and this obviously saves you money and saves you time in your work the other thing is if you create a space that they feel not just look at because look at it's a trend it goes but if they feel it and they they love it they'll always come back to you they will always come back to the person who gave them this feeling but if you compete on look they can jump around there are so many very talented designers yeah they can have anyone they want like Fast fashion but we want to be artisanal we want to be a handcrafted sweater by your grandma that you always keep um yeah yeah the lovely sweater you're always wearing is not fashionable at all but it's it's all right it's those those those well how do you I I don't know if you is that the international words for that but this guy is home home suits or our own jumpers maybe or one or one season but it's the feeling it's the idea but yeah interesting your listeners will be very very fashionable ones yeah a lot of them well I got well if you talk about the Aesthetics and those those wonderful wonderful wonderful pictures I'm I always get intimidated by that I'm like whoa they are good designers but then my mind goes every time the next step is okay why is this a good design it's fishable really attractive really professional but then my next question is actually the first question is why is this a good design yeah yeah how can I know this is a good design tell me why you did it that way and I I do understand it with the designer skill perspective of Aesthetics volume balance color materials well all the disciplines we know them all yeah I I truly do understand that and then I can get jealous I'm like whoa they have all the aspects in the way but what's the Beyond level well just to build on first to build on what you said I totally agree and to be honest I see so often that people get too focused on the visuals without thinking about as you said the why and the process of it and then they just say ah well this looks amazing because they spent a million dollars on it and they had this designer and this designer Furniture of course it looks nice yeah it isn't of course because if you follow the same process with cheaper materials or a smaller space maybe the same feeling the same the same results and you're looking for the feeling I think the feeling is really valuable because we do our target audience are well there there are let's say premium paying clients there are a kind of high-end we did a we did we did really high-end projects but a lot of clients are not even that high amps they have budget yeah they can spend the budgets on chairs and tables and lamps and whatever of uh of the premium Brands yeah that they tell us I don't want you to use them because that can do every designer can do that why do I need to hire you and that's exactly I think that we that's the story you're telling right now right yeah um and I think it it's also become worse as we've entered a digital age where it's so easy to see as many pictures as we want um but if we think back in the day not even that far up uh far back maybe in the 80s or the 90s if you wanted to understand the space you went there you visited the Space and you walked around and you maybe you sat down and you read a magazine and you left you let the whole atmosphere come in but now we only see one dimension and that's it and we think we understand the design but we don't um we take a floor plan we take a heavy put it on the walls yeah and then we start generating a beautiful image it's not it is no no no I never believed in that way of Designing it's it's a it's it's a great tool to get your 3D blank canvas but then you need to know how does this blank campus feels how is the well you can say about the sun you can you can simulate how the Sun goes so that's that's another thing technology can save that but then again what's the moment you're creating but just on that we're coming back to the difference between image creation or styling and design they're very different yeah and the design has to come first and then we can think about all the styling because if we have the foundations correct and the motivation correct everything else will look good again um but my my only tip would be take a day if you have a client who says I want this feeling and maybe this style find a house find a a venue which is quite similar and sit there sit there for half an hour sit there for an hour watch people how watch how people move through the space where they linger uh watch their Reactions where are they most comfortable where are they most relaxed where's conversation happening uh yeah you know the most easily and then focusing on this particular area because if you take in the whole Space maybe it's too much and maybe all you need is this small window this small area of the entire design and that that will help your work yeah that could be the main focus yeah yeah I I had a I don't know if I shared it before in the in the beyond the terrorism podcast but we had a Sven and I had a literally sleepover yeah at a client in at their home that's nice they bought a house and he said well it was a it was a kind of long journey uh so we were like okay we need to travel but we can do two days spending with you on a co-creation process we would like to try that one and we literally uh are going to sleep and eat with you uh we we bought the kids too bad I literally read them bedtime stories but this is beautiful yeah yeah it was an amazing experience and I I'm yeah well it's not every client you like to do that yeah with because of you have you can have another um you are maybe on another level sometimes it's a friend zone sometimes it's really professional yeah so uh or maybe you you they are really interesting but you you're not really into them you don't like them too much hey you have all these levels I I I you can have a um a not so nice client but are really interesting I wanted to know everything about them man that's it that's a difference and the other one you would like to drink a beer with or so I suppose not every client obviously has to be our friend for us to understand them um but what you described I think is a wonderful idea um and maybe it doesn't have to be as you know as as full-on as this but maybe a consultation sitting with them for an hour isn't enough maybe we do need to watch how they cook their dinner what they do while they're uh in their morning routine I know it sounds crazy but it's no no yeah not not to me you literally want to know whether you have your breakfast is it in the car or is it at the table with your family and do you want more breakfast in the car do you want less breakfast in the car even Small Things yeah or when they're getting ready for work are they stressed out uh can they not find anything oh are they already in a bad mood before they leave the house yeah the things that we can add very small changes which would change their life completely yeah would never know them unless we observed yeah uh frustration is about school bags at the entrance you're coming home from you had a busy day and then all the school bags and all the rubbish from here gets it over there and like why why didn't you put and then you take your own jacket and you're hanging it over the kitchen uh chair over the dining chair and then and then your wife or your partner is complaining about that you are hanging the hanging the jacket in the in the kitchen absolutely but you've done that because there's nothing else that's better and yes and that's it the most sense to you right now yeah um and these are small details which you know like Atomic habits they're very it's the one percent every single day that changes your life completely and I think within the home it's these one these really really tiny things which we wouldn't get from looking at Pinterest we wouldn't get from using AI um that can change our customers way of living yeah and even just then I know it sounds crazy and maybe we're going too far with this but maybe the marriage or the relationship of the kids is improved because you're not so angry when you come home from work yes small things aren't irritating you you can relax and it opens possibilities for better relationships with within the home that's the that's to be on the level I'm talking about yeah if you get to this level then your whole world will change you get you get even more fulfillment of hey we do already have the most beautiful job in the world it is but this is not you don't get here by thinking about this trend or this wallpaper and this no watching this is this is not the design that's going to take us Beyond interior design you can you can use them for your research yeah about uh what kind of emotions and associations are coming up with your at your clients uh heart of feelings but what is that they what is it that they see if they're looking at the latest Trend or even an old huh yeah an old thing yeah it's uh yeah wonderful yeah we we uh we go uh very deep with the emotions because we are really passionate about it so let's let's get no it's it's wonderful I like this open conversation that's that's hey that's that's the playground of this podcast uh it's not scripted at all and we just go with the flow we know that I always run my uh gas that it can be in the end yeah so we're talking about experience design that's very important experience emotions yeah and and then on the other end there's a thing about this this harmony this perfectionism about the visuals but there's always a thing and that's well if you talk about Trends it's kind of trending because we do know Perfection is not eh it's not the best maybe it's hard to not nothing is perfect so you have this imperfect world what's going on on that level the imperfect worlds yeah well there's nothing more to say about it than it's the world that we live in um yeah and I think um as a kind of reaction to how do I put this is it is it authenticity over perfection I'm just trying to find the right way to put this I think we want Perfection we want this platonic idea of the perfect kitchen okay um but that's not where value lies value lies in the small idiosyncrasies that you encounter every day it's you know it's uh it's it's the grooves in a pebble it's the the kind of the weird patch in your floorboards that you know feels nice under your foot but yeah um it's these small details that you can't design for you just have to wait for them to arrive recognize them and then try and celebrate them yeah it's really like like uh when the sun is on your wooden floor you can smell a forest and then you have all these emotions of the of the forest or uh the kind of uh for me we're talking about flooring this is why I don't like were possible to use vinyl flooring yeah because it's too perfect um it has no Soul um like he described when the sun comes up you don't see the the imperfections the the small shapes inside of the wood and the different levels of shininess to Madness yeah it's these it's these small things which open up opportunities for really nice moments you know when you're Sat by yourself before your kids wake up you're having a coffee and you can just look at the floor it's it's really as simple as that but what about what about if you're really practical I do know those climbs they are so practical their perfect life is where everything is very practical and then they go for a well let's call it a plastic floor because when they hit take a glass in it will fall on the ground it's not broken or you can clean it very easy it has no green grits and whatever yeah sure um so that's me that's my taste that's when I yeah yeah and not everyone is like that no but I think there are ways to introduce this so if they're concerned about hygiene and practicality of the floor right now that's fine like if we go reflected large Brands what they're doing is um is spreading this message of well let's say if you have um if you are those really practical solution based designer you can share your relation about those vinyl floors it's it's perfect because then you will attract more people that will come go for that floor but if you are the designer and you are really romantic about these wooden floors and this imperfection you need to share that story right

how do you see that if you if you are a brand do you need to communicate I don't know I don't know if I agree there um so if or is it to Freedom is it always the freedom that you if we're talking about commercial use yeah these are chosen purely for their practicality they're not really chosen for the aesthetic um if we tie this in with a wider concept of how we move forward as designers in a world that's being more and more influenced by artificial intelligence and generative imagery and things like this Perfection is not and I you know I'll put an underline on this perfection's not going to be what we're after because Perfection will come like this perfectly every time um and there'll be no space for us because we won't do it as well so we can look if we're talking about commercial there are brands for whom practicality is a secondary consideration and experience is the first consideration we can look at the way that Aesop designed their Stores um every single store is different they use natural materials they use motifs and ideas to each area that the story is um if you're seeing the brand that say the brand name again Aesop a-e-s-op um so if we were thinking about a practical way of doing this we would say okay so uh we have a hundred stores and we need to have the same floor so that we have a cleaning regimen we need uh you know the same kind of surfaces so we can buy in bulk and we know what's health and safety but they don't do that because the practicality is second they understand that their customers want to experience something and you might want to push back on this because from your experience you have clients who say perfect perfect yeah that might be fine for now but I think there will definitely be a counter Trend um where we are saturated with so much artificial imagery that we retreat into a more natural organic world and I think we're already seeing small signs of this already yeah yeah well let's call it big big signs for me if I just see what's going on on social media yeah and the AI platforms uh all the visuals that were generated is like we're we're trying to design a new Utopia a kind of forest nature-based cities yeah but in in fact they have all this what they do have in common is this uh reconnecting with nature feeling but then you're talking about the emotion and all the shapes well it could be organic it could be more a square it could be I don't know they can be dip but the concept in general is all talking about something needs to change in this world uh we want to reconnect with nature again and yeah we have to take care about the planet so we need to work with a local materials sustainability so it's literally technology and sustainable sustainability and emotions emotions is the first thing I I again so that's your favorite that's your number one right my number one because yeah have a plastic floor don't have a plastic floor have some travel time marble beautiful or don't it's it's really this is all window dressing the real design where we have real value to add to our clients in in this world that we're moving into is in understanding the moments that we create for them and the opportunities for transformational Life Experiences because especially in the home this is where all the important things happen birthdays um you know graduations bringing the parents home to meet your partner these kinds of things and without these life is sort of meaningless everything yeah this is just uh I don't know it's uh it's flashy it's wow it's nice but it's like a it's like eating McDonald's or drinking some coke it's really nice but it doesn't feed you you know um again McDonald's yeah I think yeah you're mentioning McDonald's again yeah I was thinking about it they came after me yeah well I I thought about it when you're mentioning that all the shops were looking the same yeah it's like I saw a post from uh the boy had a young another podcast episode about human behavior and they said where did McDonald's change from his happy happy child is playful uh architecture into this this prep this depressive I don't know it's agree blue yeah green I mean yeah it I mean it's nice obviously the people who designed it did a very good job yeah but I think the fact that every wherever you go in the world it's exactly the same yeah it's uh but this is not just a McDonald's thing we've seen this everywhere oh yeah the same stores in every High Street it's the same restaurant it's the same cafes with the same food um I think the this healthy sustainable thing is winning here there's emotions which works right now what we would like to uh yeah I don't have anything to really add about sustainability and Design um it's not my forte and I would always take advice from people who know it much better my focus is always on experience and the experience that we cultivate within a space and the design yeah yeah and if it's it's if it's with local materials or local based or connected with their inner culture or in a world and then it's it's even better but this is for context so from my perspective I do this for context so that people feel grounded in the world yeah and have a sense of space well yeah a doll that's floating through space with uh nothing to hold on to yeah yeah yeah it's a little like you drive on the highway every time you see the same fast food restaurant hey you can drive right right now you can drive 40 000 miles sir forty thousand kilometers around the world you have all the same shops yeah you can eat every few kilometers in the same exact the same restaurant almost yeah and that's that's strange and this is something um there's a hotel in Tokyo that I think did a really good project it's called trunk hotel and uh Frank Hotel trunk Hotel yeah um I I'm not I can't remember if it's in Harajuku or Shibu yet it's somewhere in between um but it's a hotel and they have open space for the community so they have a restaurant and a kind of Izakaya like a pub where guests can come but it's also open to local people to come for a beer and relax after work and what I enjoyed so much about this is that especially when you travel you go to the same chain hotels and you're surrounded with the same non-local people all speaking in English and it feels like you feel kind of crazy that uh you've gone to another place and it feels exactly the same um it's like so it feels the same but you feel crazy yeah well you feel crazy but it should be different it's just like the place you've gone to and yet you're surrounded with people who are maybe the same nationality as you from back home yeah it has all the same food offerings and it's the same hotel that you have back home nothing has changed and there's no context and what I think trunk did really well is they didn't go for this kind of Keisha um like traditional wooden building blah blah blah it's modern but they broke context so by inviting the community in to share the space with guests it creates this feeling of exploration of Discovery or feeling out of your comfort zone yeah moments um and it's only in these moments that you can actually remember that you're alive and doing yeah these are the moments that you're feeling even when it can be first in the first time kind of negative or surprising or mesmerized or whatever but you will memorize the those emotions yeah this wasn't about this wasn't about the consideration of what materials used for the floor or what lights to put up this was a more strategic view about the space and how we integrate foreign guests and you know local people so breaking breaking the context that's really powerful tool to get attention absolutely yeah that that's I think that's a kind of thing that is going on right now with big Brands hey you see with all the AI Generations that they combine other worlds with their brands to discover hey what what what's going to happen when we take Louis Vuitton and Candy if we take the desert and we put well there's combining those worlds will give us new worlds and I really do like that research but that's that's where we can find how things can work in another environment or other part of the world if you literally want to go for maybe the same foods which you want to go to the other side of the world because the atmosphere is so different and then you have a reason to go there yeah and it's not like your Escape that you like oh I don't know what to eat tonight let's go to the restaurant I already know these these seeds are so fine no you might you wanna you want another chair yeah yeah you want another view you want another smell yeah but you do want the quality of the brands yeah that's the this is something that we can bring into the home as well because I know that yeah many of your listeners are not engaged with designing for hotels or for restaurants well it's definitely on the bucket list if they there's always a hotel or in a boutique hotel or on the bucket list always well these are considerations to keep in mind then but even for the home so you come home every day you you sit at the same table you have maybe the same dinners are there ways that we as designers can add

moments that change people's mindsets so in the same way that you go to trunk Hotel and all of a sudden you are in a new place not just physically but also mentally yeah are there ways that we can do that for people's homes to break the routine of you know you had a bad commute your boss was mean to you today uh your kids are kind of annoying this afternoon yeah are there ways that we can design that break this so that people can have a new positive experience and leave all that behind yeah I thought so much about mindfulness and leaving your work and your life at the door yeah well-being yeah yeah that's it yeah so we we talk about the kind of transition zone we talk about literally about the moments that you come back from home and what's going on right there right then yeah what's going on and what is influencing your moods so I I already uh told you about the school bags for example different things and if you are managing to solve that yeah and to shape their emotions in such a positive way that they already and well it can be just tell them if they are happy of the nature minded and they just remind them of the beautiful tree at the beginning of the street when I'm coming to a new uh when I am visiting their home for the first time I say wow you lived in a beautiful neighborhood did you uh did you see the tree right now yeah because you read that in love nature but they they were so focused on automatic pilot coming home and they don't even see it make them conscious about those moments yeah this could be as simple as the place that you put seating um is it facing away from the TV yes only looking at the window um and obviously I can't give a list of of things to do um and that's not my philosophy I don't believe in lists I don't know in rules for design no but the good questions yeah if you wanna yeah I always say if you want the quality life you need quality answers or quality questions then you get quality answers and to bring it back to our earlier conversation about yeah looking at designs of big brands or looking at designs of very successful designers or even AI you can have all of these but you have to ask the right questions at the beginning to select them in the most appropriate way yeah that's the I think that's the only thing we add value to to be honest yeah yeah in technology can provide a lot of Leverage huh it's a big time saver for a lot of structures and systems behind in your in your processes so that's wonderful that's why I truly Embrace uh technology I like it but um technology can train us when you use it the wrong way humans to be less human and that's that's that's scary yeah that's a scary thing so I'm uh yeah I I would be very interesting to see how we can use technology yeah and technology is not using us because that's most of the time why people say I don't I don't want to use technology because it's scary it makes us unhuman well it's that's up to you yeah it's about your own inputs it is about it is about your inputs um and there isn't going to be a perfect workflow um it really depends on how comfortable you are with using tools like this and also the type of clients that you have um because some clients will really prefer the very rustic sketches yeah where they understand they understand the the physical contact of the piece yeah that's a that's a good one question because some designers Embrace technology they hate they hate those uh uh slicky slicky visuals and images yeah I I I I get that because I think it doesn't work always but they think with their most of them are perfectionists we like this perfect picture it's still there in our brains but um I recommend using tools like mid Journey yeah as a way to break the ice so it can be very difficult looking at a blank piece of paper um you sort of you sort of have a cloud of an idea somewhere in your head and you can waste a lot of time trying to to bring it down yeah and even then it doesn't feel quite right even then it sort of feels 90 of the way there but not exactly no um and using tools like like mid Journey can be a very good way of well I like to use it in my work to kind of disprove myself so if I haven't had that a little bit crazy I'm not going to say that to our clients because I don't want to waste their time um but maybe I can just take a look and say okay no it's bad let's let's leave it um and then you once you have this bad idea gone you can focus on the good ideas so the the big Concept in general you're going to test it yeah a little bit yeah you're going to to discover it in your own time as a designer yeah see how how this can work and if it's going in the right direction yeah you can use it just as a yeah it's a source yeah it will even just to say yeah actually I think I'm on the right track here it looks kind of good but uh I want to do this myself because it's you know and that's fine yeah yeah wonderful yeah and if you don't like if you are a self-employed designer and you really hate um your screen let's call it that way you don't want to use with it work with the computer is you are advised to work with somebody else who can do these visuals I would suggest that Outsource it yeah I would find a good designer there are lots of very talented 3D artists who would be very comfortable using AI as well yeah and it might just be as simple as giving them the brief giving them the feeling that you want and allowing them to have some creative Direction uh yeah you can get very specific by giving them drawings and giving them materials and I've created in the in the document that your listeners can have a very clear step by step of how to work very smoothly with a with a visual artist because uh it can be very frustrating sometimes for both parties because you both have your own ideas yeah um and where there's a knowledge Gap uh it can make work kind of tricky so uh I always I always recommend coming with the right mindset and the right process and then yeah you need to be definitely open for that we we we've tried it we've tested it we sometimes it works sometimes it's not if you have a really

picture in your mind it doesn't work because it's not it's it's so hard to to how can somebody else generate depiction what is in your mind because then you're adapting into the emotions and and then you're just telling I don't feel it I don't feel it and that's the same problem with clients yeah you can have the perfect concept for them you know that this is absolutely right for them but if they don't feel it you're lost and you have to do it again that's a really amazing point because actually yeah the way that clients come back to us is so yeah the same way that we interact with uh different professionals when we're collaborating yeah so it's really yeah cooperation that's the magic word yeah it's collaboration isn't it right teamwork yeah just a question when you uh when you worked with 3D artists what do you think was the source of successful results and unsuccessful results from your experience [Music] um the biggest the hardest challenge is sorry you're supposed to be asking the questions no I I like it I like it and um it's it has to do with um

well the thing that when it didn't work is that I was not completely sure about the emotions I could not describe them yeah to get back to the emotions and you know your client's so good and you have this this uh picture in mind and you you ended up with uh because that's a lot of time we just end up with a with a SketchUp uh SketchUp drawing and it's not rendered it's not it's literally the concept connected to all your emotions and the designer experience and process we gave them yeah so they have a lot of they value already this ketchup growing so much that this is most of the time the end result for us and uh the times we are generating the pictures the problem is that I I can feel in a split second that they don't like maybe they don't like that picture when they like it I'm going to use it sometimes you do the investment and then then well we decide not to use it not to not to show it because yeah it's not giving them the juice yeah it's not the confirmation that we are on the right track although we know if we just create the space like that they realize it from this rough sketch with all the descriptions and all the products attached that they they have the the perfect end result so yeah yeah because I think it's a separation between when you're working with a client who has a space and they know what it looks like and they have a vision for what it should be um I don't necessarily recommend very very glossy images no the reality will never look that good yeah or setting them up for disappointment and yeah difficulty for yourself to deliver that because it's impossible um where we're talking about something which doesn't exist so maybe your clients might be commissioned to make some designs for an apartment building um and they're going to you know sell them before they build them in this sense it's very important to get very very specific and very clear about your designs because why would I buy a 400 000 Euro apartment which yeah just yet yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't um yeah that's really risky yeah so actually you in my opinion you need to have a timing strategy that you that you increase the risk of them increase their their emotions their doubts you know that they know this this is absolutely right for them and if it's a really on a really nice natural paper with charcoal and whatever and this will do the job use that if you are a designer and you are you you want to avoid a computer at all be the designer that's avoiding the computer yeah you will need it for the construction part but that's these are those are tactical drawings only a few people really that they are getting sold on the technical drawings they they are yeah 100 I agree with you yeah you're 100 so it's everything yeah I think you have to again work with your emotions and communicate upfront what kind of designer you are so you are doing every time what you love to do and what you do best yeah if you if you if you hate uh those uh fully generated visuals maybe you need to communicate that well I think think I think if I have a request don't hate them no maybe learn to appreciate them um you don't have to you don't have to use them but yeah if you can find some way of working with them it will help you in the future um in a small way I agree yeah I agree it gets it can solve so much yeah yeah it can solve so much yeah well if you hate it go completely the other direction Go full organic design and yeah there will be there will be many clients who hate these images and will want someone who only does collage or pencil sketches yeah for them you're perfect yeah that's what that's what I meant just but then you need to go 100 full-on into that direction and not not put some pictures over there yeah yeah then you're going to disappoint people be very good in what you love to do most and you will you will attract your own ideal clients definitely yes goes back to our first interview where yeah as small designers we we have to be brave and we have to put our flag in the ground and say this is what we do um if we try to muddle it and try to do pieces of this and pieces of that we confuse we confuse our process and we confuse our clients yeah well wonderful crystals thank you yeah I think yeah we we uh we could talk for hours uh about all the uh design processes and other brands and then our passion but um yeah I think we we have a we created another um a lovely part two of the beyond the Third Edition podcast it was great talking to you again yeah yeah

um so uh to wrap this up

um what are the key points to encourage designers to embrace the new tools and techniques I think the key the key process that they need to keep in mind is the why um it doesn't matter which tool you use if you want to draw draw if you want to use a mid-journey use it it's fine um if you want to learn 3D design skills that would be great but all of them will be pointless unless you focus on the why and you focus on the end feeling

and that's it and that's it exactly that's it it's so easy yeah Hindi it can be that easy it can be that easy literally yeah you need to you need to write strategies you need to ask the right questions uh yeah you need to know your client that well at the company for ourselves that's uh yeah yeah most of the time you get in your head you get lost in your own fantasy world and then you are presenting your in your your mind beautiful ideas and then somebody else is not in that flow and not in that and it come came home from work and this is where all the complications in our work come from because we have an unclear idea of what we can offer and then the client never really knows what to expect and they're constantly fighting us um so I think keep it simple and just kind of work with what feels natural to you um I wish I could give more but if you want more there is the documents and I think you could add a lot of value to your workflow yeah definitely and well this this whole topic we were talking about and actually the whole beyond the devil design uh all the topics there are um well the entire impact formula we are teaching preaching walking talking whatever you're doing in the formula of The Institute is solving all those issues with the creative freedom with Financial Freedom with getting more fulfilled with your designs um tapping into your own signature and principles as a designer so you will attract the right people so well you're literally you're we're going to design your business but in your life because it's it's hard to see sometimes the separation between private life and designer life because how can you walk on the street without seeing and get inspired yeah it's a I think this idea of separation is for me unrealistic yeah we're not accountants we can't leave yeah later in the office we get all of our best ideas when we're walking our dog or or playing with our friend our loved ones and our friends this is where the magic happens in the free time most of the time in free time yeah it doesn't happen you know at the desk all the time so yeah yeah so if you want to create more time in your schedule hey you want to design your life you want to elevate your business uh feel free we have a cool blueprint as well um the interior impact formula blueprint with all the five faces for your business and how you can solve it and you can go to the next level so please uh have a look on the website it's a really cool free download to get clarity about uh how you can go to the next level with your business so um well Kristoff thanks again um what can we expect in the next episode

um I I feel there is a topic coming in a few weeks again when we reach out to that we'll do each other again yeah figure something out yeah feel feel free to share your thoughts and we can have another um great open conversation about uh what's going on in our industry and how uh what we need to take care of in the future how we can save questions that your listeners have if there's anything that they would like to know or think that I could add value to I'd be more than happy to fill in fill in those questions and uh yeah maybe take some maybe take some questions yeah so uh again on www and student.com branding there's everything about Kristoff you can uh look in the in the blogs as well you can reach out to Christopher LinkedIn and other social media platforms so uh feel free and let us know uh your thoughts about these topics thank you for listening and uh we hope to see you next time on a live maybe bye for now bye thank you thank you