Another exciting episode of the Beyond Interior Design podcast, featuring our special guest, Kristoff D'oria di Cirie. Together, we delve into "The Shocking Future of Interior Design".
We explore the ever-evolving world of interior design and artificial intelligence. We'll uncover ten captivating subjects on the intersection of creativity, technology, and human expertise.
Top 10 Intriguing Subjects:
As we navigate this rapidly changing landscape, remember that the essence of design lies in human creativity and the ability to bring dreams to life. Stay tuned for more insightful episodes, and don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave us a review. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep designing with passion and purpose!
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
Another exciting episode of the Beyond Interior Design podcast, featuring our special guest, Kristoff D'oria di Cirie. Together, we delve into "The Shocking Future of Interior Design".
We explore the ever-evolving world of interior design and artificial intelligence. We'll uncover ten captivating subjects on the intersection of creativity, technology, and human expertise.
Top 10 Intriguing Subjects:
As we navigate this rapidly changing landscape, remember that the essence of design lies in human creativity and the ability to bring dreams to life. Stay tuned for more insightful episodes, and don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave us a review. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, keep designing with passion and purpose!
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
"Before I started using the journey I would have a lot of ideas a lot of inspiration which I would never explore never ever ever because to do so even with 3D tools which I've gotten very good at it would take me a week to to create that image yeah you have to be much more selective but now any errant thoughts any inspiration no matter how wacky gets explored and gets explored fully and sometimes there are lessons from there and sometimes there aren't thank you."
Welcome design Enthusiast I'm Marc Müskens, your host and we delve into the ever-evolving world of interior design whether you are a seasoned designer or someone who simply appreciates the beauty of well-designed spaces this podcast is your passport to the Future on their design so buckle up and join us on this trailing Journey Beyond Interior Design.
Okay shall we, should we be concerned about the potential loss of our design jobs due to the rise of AI is opportunity the new reality of AI and interior design step towards opportunity have you ever wondered how AI is shaping the way we envision and create spaces is it a mere tool or is it transforming the very essence of design itself there is other questions that keep us up at night and we're here to unravel the answers or are we interior designers going to face Extinction in the coming years to navigate these uncharted waters we've brought back an exceptional guest someone who's consistently pushes the boundaries of what's possible not to elevate the industry but to Shake It Up it may not always be intentional but he's doing it Our Guest today is Kristoff D'oria Di Cirie a creative director hospitality and Retail interior designer and brand experience designer a true artist in every sense please give me a warm welcome to Kristoff as he steps into the beyond the terror design ring once again because together we'll explore the critical question how shocking is the future of interior design welcome Kristoff good morning thank you for having me and really tea generous and too kind that's really it's very flattering thank you yeah you're breaking all the records third time here welcome yeah cool uh another topic not about brand experience uh well of course it has to do with brand experience but we're talking about AI um we could talk for hours so uh let's get started on this topic um listen I know technology has always happened it's the the the tractor the car the computer the the plane the boat the thoughts the books right now um yeah so these are where inventions that changed the way uh well change the things in in big ways definitely and now ai I'm sometimes a bit worried because where do we end up with our profession
where do we end up with our profession that's a really good question I suppose it comes down to the question of what you think the profession is um I think a lot of anxiety comes from the feeling that we're technicians and that's actually a way that a lot of clients viewers as technicians as uh as giving form to to their ideas and not having an expertise and a sensibility of Our Own
giving an answer to AI is actually part of a more holistic question about our industry in our careers as professionals so um Can it can I do the job in your opinion right now can you do can it do the job it can do it can do something that looks like the job um it does a very good uh impersonation of an interior designer but it's not an interior designer um I think a really good way to look at it is let's say the first question is are you a technician or are you a designer are you being paid by your clients to make drawings and visuals or are you being paid by them to to understand their needs to understand their life and to create an environment that is conducive to their lifestyle um all in obviously a very beautiful and aesthetic way so in that sense if you just view it as the technical Parts AI can do a very good job very very good job um sure the images aren't perfect but they get you a long way there um and a good way to view if you want to use Ari is view them as a junior so um let's say you're a creative director or an art director or a senior partner in a large design firm you don't sit there at your drafting table drawing every single plan every single concept doing watercolors you don't do that anymore you have an army of Juniors the design work is still your own they may have drawn it they may have measured it they may have even picked out the swatches but the concept the vision and the consultation that you have with your clients is entirely yours that's your work now it's a kind of a kind of Outsourcing to automation or to technology or to a person sure it's the way you see it that way yeah I do and um you know some people don't like the images that come out of AI and that's absolutely fine um they're going to be lots of clients who aren't interested in these pictures they prefer the more tactile sketch they prefer the Swatch boards with this fabric next to this reference and you know whatever um so that's not for them that's not going to be a problem what it can do for you is work as I like to think of it as Pinterest on steroids so I've been thrust on steroids yes sure instead of looking round you know for hours to find references that you want you can get those references like that um not necessarily as the finished product but to help your design process um yeah and so often in in my work at least I might have a hundred ideas and 99 of them are absolutely terrible so so yes yeah I mean it cannot be all good no definitely so one or two is obviously is finding enough um but to be able to have a tool to explore those ideas give them breath give them a space um to to kind of to be explored and then to discard them is really useful and that's something that I can do for you yeah I went I went to a later on how how are you using exactly what it is that you do to get out the images you really want because it's it's not that you just say hey give it give me your brand new idea of uh of the next shop or home in this style and it's done in a few seconds that's not how it works so I want to I want to know more about it but um so so what is if you're using AI what what is what is it that people are buying them because we know with a SketchUp for example it's very easy to sit which gets you up at the table which at which your clients and show them in a few seconds what happens if you color a roll if you take a roll down uh whatever you change the shape you can do anything in a Split Second and people accept that and they love it by the way the AI you can imagine with pushing one button if you have the right settings or so people are like whoa that you did it really fast to show me what kind of design it is and so what what it is how yeah how does it feel when people are buying that if you can show them that it is yeah who is the artist and how you act how does it work well I think I'll sorts of answer that in a roundabout way um and I hope you'll all forgive me but they're all interior designs interior designers out there and I'm sure you're aware of this away um they can charge tens of thousands even hundreds of thousands of dollars for a one watercolor sketch that they might have knocked up in half an hour picking out some items some key items that might have taken them an hour that doesn't reduce their rates their design is still good um just because they become proficient at it doesn't mean that you pay less um you're paying all the speed you're paying for the time it took to get to that point so to go back to your question um to create a design isn't just instantaneous it isn't about the image it's about the years of education and process and study and and even the time getting to know the clients that's distilled within that image it's not about the image it's about the referencing it's about the education it's about knowing what kind of textiles are going to work for what kind of Lifestyles it's about knowing that oh actually you can't put that kind of core ball in that type of house all these elements AI doesn't understand AI gives you an approximation but it doesn't finish the job and that's where your job can say okay yeah I would like to repeat that but you said I always tell uh my coaching clients you know or on LinkedIn or whatever it's not about the time you're investing and a lot of designers are calculating with hourly rates and I know I know some people that are here in the in the goal they know my they know my story so it's about the value you're giving if you are an expert and working really fast and getting the right answers very quickly in the right designs and with all because you know how to use tools and how to uh use the time of your client in a wise way because they they are not looking forward to a design traitory of of months sometimes it will take nine months a version 27.2 if you can tell them hey we work together a few hours or a few days and in four weeks the whole design is ready because I work this in this way yeah who would who would like to pay more for the designer in a in a four-week trajectory or the one with nine months well that's a philosophical question and that's definitely one that I agree with personally yeah there is this idea that if you do it quickly it should cost less because you spent less time on it but as you said let's say you're doing a house every week every month that goes by costs more money in everything yeah you're not in your home yet it's not there um so you're paying for that convenience I mean in the Arbitrage World in design you pay for Rush jobs you don't pay you pay more for Rush jobs not less so um so that's where I fit in this um and yeah this all goes back into the question about AI yes
let's say a tool like mid-journey generates the final image in about 10 seconds that well that's not true that's not the true process um there's a wider process that goes into it to get a good image um yes the rendering is quick but to get a good product there are steps before that which aren't counted in the rendering no for my own process you know I'll spend time understanding the brief building a classic brief um so I'll understand who's going to be using it whereas it's situated what are the kind of design languages that will be expected in this kind of space design languages yes so the design languages so if it's in Zurich it's going to have a different design language than if it's in Mumbai um even if it's technically the same project the design language changes to Suits the occupants and the missile sound that it sits in um I don't know if I've gone into a different direction there but um no no but it's it's so it's all about um well I I know uh jet GPI a lot of people know I think by now they they work in some way with jet Epi to see what's what really what he can create of a text or in some in some way but if you don't ask the right question to Jet GPI you don't have the right settings you get a horrible answer or it's it's not creative at all it's like oh you you literally took it from a boring website and uh oh I have to do this this is what I need to use I would like you can literally say that hey this is this is boring give me a give me a better version but in some way the creativity is not there I'm like you have all the whole world to pick from yeah but sometimes this computer doesn't know what's creative at all so then I'm then you are left with your own creativity because if you just give them some ideas then they can run in the right direction and you can complement the computer and he's he's always happy with compliments and Mining process because this education and you have this background and the sensibility yeah so that's the result you say oh close not quite right and then you're editorializing it just like just like you were an art director in a big Studio your Genius come to you they submit the work that they've done you say okay you've come some way on the brief but we need to keep tweaking it and that's why your expertise comes in so yeah and create and creativity then because it's very useful if you are even creative with these robots to talk with them let's call it robots because I yeah it's more humanized than a computer in some way I I do see it as a kind of robot as somebody who can be in your team can be really helpful save you a lot of time I will go over a bigger advantages later on with you after you explain everything how it how it might work but I do see them that way so um yeah I'm I'm literally curious how we can optimize the use of AI then in our business so what is it what kind of uh programs are you using right now I know you from LinkedIn post and uh if you don't know list of the royal DC on LinkedIn you better follow in because it's amazing what he's creating with uh with AI images he told me he's spending at least five hours on those kind of posts so imagine what it means for you in the week spending five hours on one post and that's even with AI I was so surprised by that because people might feel it that it will take a few seconds because they think it's Ai and they can do it in a few seconds but no it takes you to come up with the concept come up with the right settings experimenting talking with this uh with this Ai and then uh coming to the final result and not even to talk about the story what's coming behind and the education because it's never just a beautiful picture that's why you're wearing the podcast it's always the story behind why this works what are the settings what's the story behind Beyond that's what I like so much this so it was a real eye opener so I'm definitely have another energy with every like or comment I'm placing on your post and I know oh Chris have spent five hours to surprise us with this amazing work and insights on the on the design world so well to that which program are you using and how does it start this kind of AI project uh so I personally use my journey um and that's only because it's the one that I got to use earliest um it was the best on the markets at the time mid-jones I I have learned to use it in a way that I like so there are other programs out there um which are doing a very good job and they're much cheaper so if you looked at my journey and you thought the price was too much uh there are free programs like blue willow which is very good uh Da Vinci is very good and so is Dali and I think with um with Bing Images you get free credits so you get free credits to use uh darling too so you can get going with that if you like um but I personally use midgeti I think it is the best but the gap between them is it's narrowing a lot um and I think like with any Tool uh if you SketchUp if you use 3ds Max if you use even pen and paper um it's better to stick with one tool and get very good at that than jumping from the next one to the next one good advice yeah good advice yeah definitely so how does it how does this start do you call it an AI job or do you have a job without Ai and width or how is it involved implementing your life in your designer life right now so in my professional life yeah it doesn't necessarily feature very often in submitted images to clients yes all right um I am using it to add to flavor and and inspiration packs so where you've submitted concept images and uh you provide you know references and kind of look and feel images they are going into that mix in the same way that I would add researched and reference case studies from different projects to to give an example um for the most part right now it's it's it's something that I use to get rid of bad ideas very quickly and to to get an idea of if a concept is worth pursuing at all before I move ahead with it so that's how I'm using it mostly in my in my career
right yeah so um well how do you start the project you have let's let's take it on you have a well somebody filled out your contact page or as contact you phoned you your new clients sure then what what is it what is it that you do how do you start any projects you well don't tell me because um I can imagine it's definitely different when you have this when you're using AI because you can go maybe quicker in the first phase or is it something you're using later on in the face and which phase is it sketch design is it preliminary design when when do you use it how do you start to communicate with AI and your clients so like they are in the same team because that's that's what's happening so in the very first sense I don't see the process as being different at all from from pre-ai times um so the first thing you do with the clients is you speak to them you understand their needs you understand the process and you understand the project um without that there really isn't a job uh so you're doing it you don't have the right inputs right that's that's why you want to know it's correct you want to know all about them what makes them thick yeah what what it is that you need to do to create real impact right and then I build let's say um as I said I'm not using our AI for submitted images so this is hypothetical um but it does relate to the way that I produce my concept pieces which go on LinkedIn so I can give you something um I would understand the needs the requirements the the client themselves uh who else should be using the space um and then as I said I would build a brief pack and for me that goes into everything um like I said before the design language the materiality um I look into saying things like okay are we using perspex or using glass are we using um silk or using velvets if we're using silk we're using wire or we're using taffeta I don't know um so it would be that granular I'd even look at furniture designers or furniture brands I'd look at different interior designers who might be a reference um even thinking about okay if this project were being photographed by a magazine which photographer would photograph it published by is it being published by L is it Conde Nast is it I don't know a Town and Country um and it has to do with it with the angle or the the the light use or what how do I yeah each each publisher and each um each photographer will have a recognizable style which will influence the feel of the image yeah so that that is an aspect of producing these images for me not for everyone but this is a way that I like to give that control um and then once I've decided on that I might even think because I used to work in that industry a little bit um I'll think okay what what specific camera are we using uh which camera settings are we using and I might plan out each shot so if I want five images I'm going to say I want to close up I'm going to Mid shots I want a tilt shift you know distance shot um and then I might want a lifestyle shot so I would make a small just with you know pencil and Pen yeah storyboard and say okay shot number one is this and these are the cameras and lighting equipment that I'll use and from all of that that can take me a whole day to do in the same way that if you're building a yeah a case file for a client it can take a whole day because you've got to research things you've got to think about things and then kind of put things together yeah so you go from your from your case File you are going to design a brief pack yeah and that's your kind of yeah it sounds like you're kind of a movie director almost because you're really getting into this world it's that's what happens with this AI for me you have so many although it's just a picture but with all this drama into your theatrical effects you can use and it it's it's like you are there you can smell something almost because first it's so realistic it has nothing to do with sketches or yeah you can you you can yeah you can see everything if you want you can be as little as possible um thank you and uh yeah so I think for me I like to do that process not only to get control over the images uh the end results but also to keep myself uh to keep myself uh strong I suppose uh to work those skills and to keep building them and improving them yeah well designers yeah you know the form is a famous quote it from eems it's designers in the details yeah but I think when you when you act like that with with AI you can be a much better designer because you you have the possibility to think about all these details and to to put it in your designs it's not like you can forget something if you have a cool brief pack and you um tell yourself with the kind of checklist I need to think about this it's like uh yeah it's the same with the interior design you know all the elements that go in in a good detail design and then you have a kind of detailed checklist of hey um nothing about this activity did I solve it or what about what's going to do with this material what are the ideal solutions to uh to work with that for functionality or Aesthetics or so this is really systemized process yeah so you get a kind of success recipe because I I love the sceneries you you spoke about it you have a kind of close up and then then a full thing and then a detailed one and that's the same with interior design if you create a mood board it's it's the same with the mood board you have the Fabrics you have the chair you have the whole scenery you can add some emotions to it and that will do the job to make them feel what it could be and I think that that whole process I mean using AI can be as simple and the slap Dash as you want or it can be as detailed as you want um you're going to get different results depending on how much pre-work you put into that yeah you really do need to look at tools like mid-journey as rendering engines that's all they are they're not going to create it for you they might put something that they think he wants but you don't have the control then you're not designing you're just uh you know you're pressing a random wheel and hoping it comes out right um yeah but the cool thing is the cool thing is you you are in control because when you create a mood board and you just uh cut out pictures that's really manually but you do it digital and you collect some pictures there's always some elements and feelings or or sceneries pure views that I'm that I'm not happy with that's why I don't use mood boards because it's it's never what I what I mean with this feeling or warmth or light effects but you can be the art director at the end with artificial intelligence and you can add the same scenery but then from a different point of view you have your ultimate perfect picture yeah that's interesting how interior designers need to look at themselves as as not technicians working on a product they are editorial uh leaders their art directors creating a space so um that's the shift in mindset that I hope everyone will take away when they're using AI um you're not cheating you're not uh doing anything kind of um you know speedy you're shifting your mindsets and I hope people will take it as an opportunity to stop worrying about learning um plastic techniques on how to you know use watercolors better or how to use SketchUp better and diverting them away from the main design skills that they need to get stronger at improving their referencing improving their understanding of different materials improving their their skills to clients every everything that you're doing on SketchUp or or even learning to do watercolors is a diversion from your real job that's how I feel about it cool yeah interesting yeah hey you thought you told me how you work with me Journey it's like you started with my journey with the first settings from your brief pack so then you uh end up with a 60 hit you're like well we're going in the right direction and then what what's your what's your next move the next step so my next move could go different ways depending on what I think is wrong with the image if it's a case of it's sort of there but the feeling of the image is wrong or or there are people where I don't want them I'll do something very simple and take the image into Photoshop I'll remove the people um and maybe I'll just uh change some of the colors or I don't know or clip in things that I would prefer and then yeah back in as an image feed um into the into the engine and I normally get what I want can you do this really roughly do you need to make it the perfect picture can you just add a person inside and then they will make it better the the better the tidier you do it the better the result will be all right but um you know you can also sketch over it so if you're not good with Photoshop um if you have a tablet an illustrator software you can draw over it um you can even take a picture of a physical sketch and put it in as a as a reference image which can help guide us along um I also use because we've talked I also use a lot of 3D softwares so if I want something that's very specific and quite hard to to give with uh verbal references I'll I'll make the scene if you like in 3D yeah I make a very simple scene so I'll put the buildings where I want them I'll put uh different props where I want them and I'll put that in as an image reference um and hopefully um that'll move me along where I want yeah just curious how many pictures there are for you on 70 are in your library
we do see the best pictures on LinkedIn for sure how many art pictures are in your library that are for you just on 70 80 90 um I think I have uh something like 15 000 images I've made on Mid Journey so we're all right
you have a lot of flight hours yeah yeah um yeah but you know oh gosh what's happening with my lighting um this is this isn't just a one and done process even when you get the things that you want from from the render engines or the AIS you have to tweak them that I yeah if you just use the tool to tell you what to do then sure it's fine do that um yeah if you have a very clear vision and you're using it to help you create that Vision you are going to spend a lot of time refining the images yeah and do you think do you do you think you become a better designer yes with this process I think I have yeah I think I have um before before I started using the journey I would have a lot of ideas a lot of inspiration which I would never explore never ever ever because to do so even with 3D tools which I've gotten very good at it would take me a week to to create that image yeah you have to be much more selective but now any errant thoughts any inspiration no matter how wacky gets explored and gets explored fully and sometimes there are lessons from there and sometimes there aren't um and sometimes the lessons all never do that yeah yeah yeah but really I think it has made me better design because building building the packs I'm because I'm not worrying about making uh the image making the image I spend more time thinking about the finer details and these are some details that I I probably wouldn't have considered you know I probably wouldn't have considered things like who's going to publish this this living yeah yeah um and it seems silly and outside of what we do but I don't think it is because some clients some of our bigger clients are concerned they do think oh gosh one day I love my home to be in the you know the local lifestyle magazine or yeah yeah yeah so you usage uses shots that they normally take for from uh from this farmer houses or yeah exactly if they want to go see a house and you are showing them a two 2D floor plan from the top they never get the feeling so I can imagine if you ask them what's your favorite moment of the week one of the most important questions for me as a designer because you want more of that you want to design that moment you want to be connected as a designer with that favorite moment so they never forget about you you want to create more of those so if you're using those moments and you you're Imagining the client is sitting well let's say on the chair drinking a drinking their espresso at four o'clock in the afternoon with the sunshine just coming in and you you picture that interior design well are they going to buy that or nuts you know it's exactly what they're looking for and you know you are creating that because it's true what you are designing but if you take another angle and you just show the chair with an empty wall behind it and you forget about the the scenery and the view yeah well who's gonna buy that you know that's an easy one 100 but there is that editorial factor for some clients that I had never thought of and there was one client who I had been talking to you on and off for maybe a year just uh they sort of wanted to do something but it never happened and it went round to their office and everywhere there was a wallpaper magazine you know the the magic yeah yeah yeah everywhere every single edition of wallpaper magazines collectors yeah the collector he he clearly loved the aesthetic and the way that that editorial presented design so I took that magazine away and I rehashed old presentations in a way and a format and a styling that wallpaper would have done straight away so sometimes it's not even about the images themselves it's it's the presentation style and in that sense um thinking about that and using AI to help you replicate the way that um a photographer or you know magazine would present an image yeah well you can create the way they would like to see the world that's what you're doing for them yeah it's it's you know it's that we've got we always talk about [Music] um lifestyle and uh and and process and you know what do you do with the kids and this is all very important but we always neglect kind of ego satisfaction and that's an element you know when when we've got a house and it's very important to us there is an element of of self-actualization it's about making us having a space that affirms the way that we would like to be and the way that we would like to be seen yeah uh you know for a lot of people um certain magazines and certain lifestyle magazines are a great way to do that so that's sort of tangential but I think that AI can help you present your work in a way that would uh be more easily identifiable to our clients it's a great it's good that you say that that people love to see a lifestyle that they are dreaming of or they want to be like that a few weeks ago I I had a conversation with her with a prospect and he told me I want you to design the house For My Future Self in five years and then I never got the question but it was he was very ambitious it was a busy lifestyle here but but he was very clear about his principles in life about his own terms so he literally said that this is the person I want to be in five years and I want the design to be the environment to get that that I'm already there it's like visualization manifesting in your head but he wanted this tangible environment I I think it is amazing if you want to be a better version of yourself what what do you need in your environment to to be that person to recognize every day to watch in the mirror to open your eyes in a bathroom that you know hey I can be this version this is the proof yeah it's amazing but you can you can do it again with me Journey you can you can take it to the next level with AI to show them you can open up the space yes worrying about the creating of the images to think about these things yes it's way more it's all about this meaning and emotion yeah again and that's well that's yeah you know the philosophy form follows meaning it's it's all about this what's the meaning of this image to your client to them yeah to take them to another uh to create more impact so yeah great so in short some advantages of working with AI it's time saving definitely uh better communication with the clients oh absolutely um I'm sure that we've all had clients who have very strong opinions but let's call it that way strong opinions yes very clear um aesthetic ideas uh or bad ideas well I'll go with that is well this is sort of something that I you know I don't use but I can see the value in um we you know there are lots of clients and especially it's a reality sometimes at the lower end of of design um we have clients who who don't have an education InDesign they don't have a lot of exposure to it um and it's very difficult for us to use uh industry language to explain to them why something isn't going to be uh effective or or give the result that they think it's going to give and using something like mid-journey is a very inexpect inexpensive quick way of visually demonstrating to them why it's not going to work um so maybe that's a great way that it can help us communicate with clients but I said they have good good ideas as well but because sometimes they say hey what what about this what about this and then in SketchUp it's easy to change the floor plan so that's the the great thing of software is literally you could show them if you are sitting on the couch do you see more or less of the kitchen or whatever or the workspace whatever so it's the same with my journey you can show them or test it out because I always like to see my client as part of the team because they know their lifestyle hey you're using their ideas and if they can think you would this way sometimes it's surprisingly good it's the same with if you work in a design Duo sometimes I tell uh Swan like no I want to change this and this he's better with uh with all the apps and computers and technology so you can yes way more flight hours in those drawing programs so he's switching it and then I say no no that's not what I mean but then actually it works out really well can that happen with my journey as well that you're answering something you're like wow this is kind of cool this is not what I mean but yeah of course it can um yeah it can there's lots of random uh surprises that you'll find yes random surprises that's worth yeah sometimes the not what you want at all and then sometimes you think okay actually how do I add that into my original concept um and I guess that's the same with working with clients sometimes um sometimes we're surprised uh by people who it's a blessing if you're not educated and you don't have the backgrounds and you're thinking about it every single day you can also come up with some really unique ideas yeah Solutions the problems um but yes I I do think though um when we have certain impasses with with design choices mid Jenny would be a fantastic tool to use straight away to to help overcome some of those roadblocks what what about uh um showing them another Advantage we went to sometimes you want to show them what it's really going to be and sometimes the sketch phase is is very powerful people do have all these emotions about just a sketch what a color sketchy or just a handwriting whatever and they agree with it and then you can create it and they have the reality what about we journey because sometimes with renders it comes so close maybe it's too perfect gonna be disappointed with the end result or how how do you work with that because I can imagine the picture is so perfect with the right scenery the daylight whatever that they would love to have it but the end result is sure yeah um I would only as I said but with clients directly I only really use them if I'm pitching as mood and reference and suggestion yes and then I use a mix of sketches and 3D renders for actual um design proposals so it's really in the in the getting the right trying to fight the right mood or the right scenery it's really literally part of the research more than that is the end result yeah I I'm thinking now because actually that's a good question uh thank you yeah I'm curious yeah there are going to be clients who are incredibly Visual and will respond very well to to the the kind of the drama and the emotive aspect of some of these AI images the challenge will come that if you present that as product as as design product the gap between that kind of perfect uh fantasy and the reality which will be delivered will be two there'll be two separate and you will never have a happy client so um yeah tricky one though I don't know um I would only give them as as look and feel and reference and not try to happen too close yeah too close to the actual room um so let's say we're talking about they have a they have a brief where they like two different kind of Design Concepts where they you know maybe they are in um maybe their property is a a 17th century Dutch Farmhouse okay and they're renovating it and they really love Japanese design they love it they you know they went to Tokyo and they're they're Blown Away by it and they want it this could be a great way for you to say okay maybe these are this is what it would this is what it would look like if you just put it in there without yeah emotion this is what it could look like if you adapted it scaled it back maybe made it more accommodating to the to the original building yeah and that would only be mood that would not be product no but that's that's wonderful because that's exactly the way why you can add the right meaning to them and the associations and the feelings and all this energy which is not tangible you can add it in the design with this process to see how you can use Tokyo and translate it to this font yeah yeah but they will have those feeling and associations in it and therefore it's really meaningful and therefore it's more sustainable they will like it more they have the they are the person they want to be they have the right memories but then once they're happy with the kind of the feel of how those Balance yeah then I think you start the traditional design process of of um you know that as you work in any other way and I think another thing is the advantage is the way you describe it is to see it as a part of your process this AI that you you again a lot of perfectionists in the their design if it's not the end product okay you can you can spend even three days more of this perfect render but if it's just part of the process start using it use it as a kind of tool in between to uh to show them what it could be and then continue with the with with the with the end results but just use it as a kind of digital mood boards and you have somebody in your AI is a new team member of you to create the perfect images so you don't have to Google it yeah absolutely yeah yeah it's actually much more interesting than Googling it or or using Pinterest because yeah it doesn't work anymore they will remember right you will look at the same image from here yeah always you never get you never get inspired anymore why because they remember your algorithm and then they show you more of what you're looking for I'm always looking for new and strange and that's not work that's not working anymore yeah I'm just reading elona's message it's absolutely storytelling it it really is um and obviously my main work is as an experienced designer where everything is about the narrative journey through a space and I think that's something that's not considered enough in interior design we focus much more on materiality we think about swatches and fabrics for soft furnishings and and styling yeah don't really think about what's the story what's the story of this living room um yes we're making practical functions about the way that they live their life but what's the story that they're telling themselves about their life um so that's that's that's a real powerful one that's definitely Beyond what's the story they're telling themselves because it's not like hey we want a big dining table for eight persons because then more people will join us at dinner no that's not the case a big dining table is not solving it you have to change your more than in your lifestyle than just the dining table so who who are they want to be yeah it goes back to your case study of the client who wanted a home that reflected who he will be yeah so that's that's narrative if you're designing his narrative um yeah I think I think ai's not going to do that for you but no by using it you definitely open up opportunities to start thinking about these things and and when we think about AI taking away jobs yes it can take away your job and do a really good job of it if you are just a technician if if the only way that you view your work is as a producer of images and swatches you will lose your job 100 yeah if you spell thinking about broader questions about how you design um an environment for people and understanding some of these more more challenging questions you will have a job forever is there an advantage if you are a more conceptual designer right now in these times I think so yeah um I think I think that the scales are very much tipping in favor of of people who are conceptual and idea first um if if you were purely technical uh I think you are getting left behind yeah and if you are because of the I can't imagine AI will transform that they can add extra details to your design if you're not a really detailed designer yeah there will be Automation in future very soon or it already is there to give you the right details if you have a custom-made wardrobe or whatever they will come up with ideas for you so you don't have to be the detail designer anymore which is what we what you can consider as the real expertise or craftsmanship craftsmanship in the design maybe AI can take that job as well in the design space oh is it maybe maybe I mean if you use chat GPT and you type something like give me a concept for
I can predict you will get the same things it will talk about of course you'll have to balance the blah blah blah blah blah yeah it never gives you it never gives you a design stance it sort of just takes what you've said and says of course you need to consider that both sides will both be equally and then talk about sustainability because of course and then talk about um you know reusable materials because of course and everything becomes a cookie cutter yeah our jobs as designers is to understand the needs of our clients um and and then to take a firm design stance so yes yes I could get there um but I think it's a very good it's it's an impersonation of a designer rather than actually designing um yeah I think if you are really focused you know I saw an ad on my Instagram timeline it was showing me in a few seconds that uh entering uh I want to design a a school a secondary school with so many classes this is the square meters I uh I do have available and it was literally popping up a floor plan 3D rendering and all the whole technical drawing set was there that's the technical part of the job yes but it wasn't me it was you can do that in a few minutes absolutely I can do this with technical drawings for all schools if you don't give a something let's call it that way about the the Aesthetics or or more about design there is a computer who can do that for you in just a few minutes and I think we're only really looking at the tip of the iceberg I think the the biggest challenge is to our job is not going to be in the concept I know that chat GPT is very impressive and it seems a bit like magic but um it isn't um and the biggest threat is going to come from the images themselves that's where the biggest competition is going to come from and they're already very good and I I have every faith that in two or three years you will have output from from someone like mid-journey which is indistinguishable it would be for all intents and purposes practically impossible to separate it from a real photograph I that's that's what I think is coming um and when you ask those questions you have to say well what is left what is left um it's your ideas and most importantly your relationship with the clients um because I think for a lot of clients they could they have all the same tools as we do they can go on to first dibs they can go onto [http://mate.com](http://mate.com "smartCard-inline") they can go onto Pinterest and they can put all these things together what they want is someone to well number one to co-sign their ideas um
but more importantly they want someone to to ensure that the result is going to be what they want um and I don't think there's I think it's very hard to to give that to a machine and I don't think that's going to come from if it comes it's not going to come for a very long time um no I can't imagine it's all right it's about the same with those floor planner apps people buy a new home they uh they uh they download the floor plan and the computer will give them a few options and when they are okay with that it works for them but if you want more you need an expert absolutely um I don't think there's anything more to say about that um our role is going to be what it always has been it's about working with clients and understanding their needs and and fulfilling their requirements um within the space that they have yes certain AI tools are going to do a quite a good job on that
but if you don't if you don't focus on the call you won't you won't necessarily be able to compete so I don't think but then I don't know I think the people who would quickly throw away a designer for the use of an AI tool instead or probably the same people who wouldn't have hired you anyway um there are people who don't value design and that's okay and they probably wouldn't have been your clients anyway so maybe you're not really losing any clients I don't know um I don't know enough about the client psychology maybe there's someone who's much more experienced with that than me but um I think the people who choose to hire us are looking for a human element um and I don't think that's going away now but well please don't focus on images uh focus on Concepts that's all yeah yeah that's definitely the takeaway we need to we need to do because that's very very useful so you're uh I received your your brief um a brief report or brief package that's I think that's very important to get really clear what you're looking for because everything can go so fast you can go very fast in the wrong direction yeah yeah maybe you're losing not this months with the next design version because we can create design versions in in one hour you can be 50 versions uh further with the AI so that's that's the biggest change in there in in history what's going on right now but then again it's it's up to your um you are the visual translator you need to adapt all their vague ideas and things into reality and how you need how to take that out how to translate it how to communicate with that that this is exactly what they need to do that's to the designer yeah yeah we're still not a screwdriver no we're not a screwdriver we're not a screwdriver no well uh water for Kristoff so um that's I think exactly the answer of what interior design what our profession is in the future can I ask a question question of everyone um those who aren't using AI image generators do you think you might give them a go uh after this talk
yeah let's put it in there in the chat put it in chat I see some uh some ads at least you can try it out I will guess with a with a free version of something see what's going on yeah um I can recommend some tools uh even some free tools that you can use straight away if you don't want to you know pay or or sign up something you don't want um as a liberating tool not another thing for you to learn but let's put it on there on your uh special uh guest Ambassador landing page uh Crystal on Institute of interior [http://impact.com](http://impact.com "smartCard-inline") uh we do have a base especially for you with your previous podcast episodes and uh yeah I would love to add some of these links uh over there so people can if you're listening to the podcast you're not here live with us right now you can go there in studio [http://impact.com](http://impact.com "smartCard-inline") you go to the inspiration to our blog and you will find Kristoff with all this uh knowledge and expertise and links so uh yeah let's do that so um well um before you leave this to subscribe to the podcast share with fellow design enthusiasts and leave us with a review uh to let us know your thoughts would be very helpful your support means the world to us so uh well big takeaways here today about AI uh we can still be a bit worried if we just think it's nothing you cannot ignore it in my opinion you need to work with it and see how we can make a better design of you it's another way to uh humanize this this robot because if we are able to humanize this robot and to to be friends with it it will help us even uh it will help us even more uh I think so that's what I think AI is going to be it's going better and better because we teach this robot how to be more human and uh well that's the problem right now and that's I think as well the problem why a lot of people hate technology because it's not a human okay you cannot yeah it's not communicating the same way so um the change is real it's a it's it's it's James has always been here so uh my advice is don't uh Don't Fear the change but at that as an entire designer
thank you very much Christophe thank you great talking to you
um well if you have a lot of subjects coming up in your mind and you are researching it I know you have a big developments with your own with your own company you're launching uh big new ideas yeah yeah so I uh I won't say too much right now but it's very exciting project um which is looking at adapting Trends from the exclusive signing industry into commercial interior settings so that's hotels restaurants cafes and stalls so how we can learn lessons from companies like teen Labs or dream machine and apply them to uh to a customer environment yeah very exciting for you I know you you will do a great job here and still researching and developing all the all the tools and discovering what's interior design design all about so uh keep going thank you thank you for being here the third time um thank you for being here in the live show uh with us and uh please well stick with us follow us and uh we'll keep in touch thank you everybody enjoy your day keep up the good work thank you everyone [Music]