EP 030 - How to Get High-End Interior Design Clients - with Steve Griggs

Welcome to a one-of-a-kind journey where outdoor spaces transform into emotional canvases. Now, before you hit pause, thinking, "outdoor spaces?" In this captivating episode, we delve into the world of transformative outdoor design with none other than the celebrated New York landscape designer, Steve Griggs.

No, Steve isn't an interior designer. But let me assure you, that's exactly why you need to listen. The insights Steve Griggs brings transcend disciplines, offering a fresh perspective on the universal principles that make designs truly exceptional.

Key Topics:
🫶 "Emotional Design Foundations": Steve reveals how he begins each project by understanding the emotions clients want to experience in their outdoor spaces. Learn the power of emotion-driven design.

🙌 "The Straight Dirt Philosophy": Discover the principles behind Steve's bestselling book, "Straight Dirt," where he lays bare the realities of the industry and emphasizes the importance of staying true to your design convictions.

🤝 "Building Trust and Credibility": Uncover the secrets of establishing trust with clients. Steve shares anecdotes on how transparency and honesty have been instrumental in his success.

🤨 "Challenges of Construction": Get a firsthand account of the challenges in the construction phase and the importance of assembling a reliable team to bring your designs to life.

⚖️ "Balancing Design and Construction": Steve breaks down the delicate balance between the creative process and the logistical challenges of construction, offering valuable insights for designers and contractors alike.

🌎 "Global Design Aspirations": As Steve sets his sights on global design projects, he discusses the universal principles of outdoor design and the exciting prospects of creating landscapes around the world.

😊 "Designing for Memories": Dive into the higher purpose of outdoor design as Steve shares stories of how his creations have become the backdrop for life-changing moments, turning dreams into cherished memories.

💸 "The Business Side of Design": Explore the often-overlooked business aspects of design. Steve emphasizes the need to run a design practice as a for-profit business, tackling pricing, marketing, and client acquisition.

📚 "The Value of a Design Book": Learn the significance of creating a design portfolio or book. Steve discusses how a well-crafted book can elevate your credibility and attract high-value clients.

👨‍🎨 "Form Follows Meaning": Wrap up the episode with a powerful concept: Form Follows Meaning. Understand how design goes beyond aesthetics to create spaces with profound, meaningful impact.

Join us in this enriching conversation that goes straight to the heart of design philosophy. Whether you're an aspiring designer, seasoned professional, or someone passionate about creating beautiful spaces, this episode is your gateway to the art of designing beyond expectations.
Don't miss out!

https://instituteofinteriorimpact.com/steve

No, Steve isn't an interior designer. But let me assure you, that's exactly why you need to listen. The insights Steve Griggs brings transcend disciplines, offering a fresh perspective on the universal principles that make designs truly exceptional.

Key Topics:
🫶 "Emotional Design Foundations": Steve reveals how he begins each project by understanding the emotions clients want to experience in their outdoor spaces. Learn the power of emotion-driven design.

🙌 "The Straight Dirt Philosophy": Discover the principles behind Steve's bestselling book, "Straight Dirt," where he lays bare the realities of the industry and emphasizes the importance of staying true to your design convictions.

🤝 "Building Trust and Credibility": Uncover the secrets of establishing trust with clients

Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

Don't design it for yourself, like, don't design it what you would like, don't? You're not the hero. You're not the hero. Okay, the client's the hero. Your job is to just show them the way, show them the way up the hill and be transparent and guide them into making smart money decisions. Cause we're gonna, before we leave this podcast, we're gonna talk about the bad word, the money word, because it's on everybody's mind.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Welcome to the playground, the lab, the area to explore the world beyond interior design and beyond, because there is a real impact and value of our beautiful profession. And today we are going to make a side step, a step into the outside world. We're going to open the doors into the garden, into landscaping, into the favorite playground of the extremely successful entrepreneur. From the very first moment we met, it was fun, so I was really looking forward to this moment.

Speaker 2: 1:20

He's not just a landscape designer, he's an artist who sculpts outdoor spaces into breathtaking words of art. He can talk for hours about this unique approach to landscape design, which goes beyond the statics to create functional and inspiring outdoor environments. So he turns ordinary backyards into extraordinary retreats, into outdoor entertaining spaces filled with lush greenery, well-crafted hardscapes and waterfalls and natural swimming pools. Those are my favorite. His journey from starting with a wheelbarrow to becoming New York's premier landscape designer is the story of dedication, of passion and enravelling commitment. So I'm grateful that he reached out to us to share his entrepreneurial journey, highlighting the challenges he faced and the lessons he learned along the way. Although it's not an outdoor design, I'm pretty sure you and me will gain so much valuable insights today into what it takes to turn a passion into a thriving business in the competitive world of design. So please welcome him, steve Griggs.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Thank you, mark. That was a great introduction. I think your accent elevates the introduction even more. So glad to be here, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Life on the other side of the pond. You called it last time, the first one.

Speaker 1: 2:44

Yeah, new York, you're from Denmark, correct?

Speaker 2: 2:47

No, not Denmark. No, I am Mark, so I understand the confusion. No, Holland, the Netherlands.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Holland OK.

Speaker 2: 2:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:55

The originator of the tulip.

Speaker 2: 2:57

Yes, well, yeah, maybe that's Turkey. We're not absolutely sure about that. But for you, europe is one piece, right, europe is such a small, such a small. It's like one country for you.

Speaker 1: 3:09

New York. It's like New York.

Speaker 2: 3:11

It's always yeah, hey, steve. So often we hear designers say I know that I have more in me, I know that there's more out there, I know I can help more people, but how on earth do we do that? You're a premium landscape designer. You become one from wheelbarrow to well, one of the New York's finest ones. Well, what's your secret? That's what we want to know today, because your work is featured in sources like Forbes, business Insider, the Wall Street Journal. You're on the list of America's fast-growing private companies, so we're excited to pick your brain today. Tell us a secret.

Speaker 1: 3:53

I am very transparent. I am from New York, so I lay it all out here. The secret is you hear it, there is no secret. There is no secret. You just you know, I've been doing this 40 years. That's a long time. Yeah, I don't give myself enough credit, right, I really don't have something very hard on myself. But when you really look back at it and you say, wow, you've been doing this 40 years, through the recession, through the economic times, I sat back when we spoke last time saying to myself I really sat back and thought about it what, really, how did I do it, right? So, man, it's really just a matter of showing up every day and just being consistent and persistent. That's really it. Like there's no, that's it. There's no app, there's no Google, and you know, just say do what you say you're going to do and that's it. I'm telling you, that's it. No excuses, say what you're going to do, because that leads to referrals and 98% of my business is referrals. So that is the secret sauce, for sure.

Speaker 2: 5:03

Yeah, ok, that's probably one key of the success. Well, we will find out later on more keys, definitely in our conversation. I know how you love to talk about your profession, so we go way deeper. I will get that. Let me first ask you because, well, you're probably marketing is a valuable part of doing business, of telling your story, getting your story straight with your audience. You're talking about the people asking to design dreamscapes. That's how you call it, right? Sure, yeah, what is it? Because it has the word dream in it. What is it that people are really asking for, then?

Speaker 1: 5:47

So, whether it's interior design, exterior design, when people say to me, all I need to listen to is how they want it to make them feel right. So that tells me everything. Just tell me you want to feel energetic, you want to feel calm, you want to feel like you're on the resort, I just listen for those buzz words Dreamscape is what are you dreaming about In your backyard? Everybody sits there dreaming about what it would look like in their backyard and I look for those words that they wanted to feel like, not look like, feel like. So when they go outside, they say, oh, I feel like I'm on vacation. Boom, I know. Ok, where's your favorite place to vacation? And you just keep asking questions. And then, really, they're designing it for you. They're designing it for you. You're just putting the pieces in place.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Ah cool. Yeah, I love that you said it. Yeah, well, one thing we have to know you make it look like so easy. That was my first impression where we had the first conversation Like it's so easy, you take it so flat, you make it so simple. But it's really listening and you talk about feelings and emotions and most of the time this is very hard. I can understand Because in fact, we are designers. We want this ultimate emotions tears, goose bumps and everything but on the other end, you have to deal with all the emotions of the clients. How do you deal with those?

Speaker 1: 7:18

So I think the key is if you're a designer, don't design it for yourself, like, don't design it what you would like, you're not the hero. You're not the hero. Ok, the client's a hero. Your job is to just show them the way. Show them the way up the hill and be transparent and guide them into making smart money decisions. Because before we leave this podcast, we're going to talk about the bad word, the money word, Because it's on everybody's mind. Everybody can find beautiful things, but let's talk about the money, because that's a whole other topic of people's emotions and they don't like to, they're afraid to spend it. It's a whole other thing. So you really want to keep everything in check and be very transparent as you're walking them down the journey, because essentially, you have to design something that's long lasting, that they're going to love and then they're going to want to tell their friends about Because you're not the hero in this.

Speaker 1: 8:09

They are.

Speaker 2: 8:11

Yeah, it's a very important thing as well. You're already taking care of the story that they will tell to their friends and family what they are. It's literally the next step. I always tell lots of my designers in the mentorship programs and other programs like, hey, don't focus on the moment that you left, that you are leaving, that it's finished, because then that's the official start of your product or service, then you're done. Then, if we had a magic wand, I was selling magic wands just to fix it once. And there it is, and then they can enjoy the new interior design or, in your case, the garden. So you're literally taking care of the moment after you left, right, is that what you're? Well, we already started to talk about the ember, but is that what you are selling the moment after you created this dream?

Speaker 1: 9:04

Skate Bill. You wanna design something that's long lasting, so you don't get the phone call saying this is broke, that's broke. You want them to call you up and say, wow, we just had an amazing pool party at my house. The kids brought the whole team over. We cooked burgers. So I'm creating, I'm selling memories, right? So you know, when you design a kitchen for the inside, everybody hangs around the kitchen. At least in the States they do. They hang around the kitchen. Families, they're sharing stories. You're creating memories, so you're creating a place for them to create memories. It's not about design. It's not about design. Nobody cares if it's blue, red, blue, green or orange. You're trying to develop so they can create memories for their family and friends. That's it. That's it. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2: 9:47

Yeah, well, if you were listening to the podcast right now, you're here live or just streaming it. This is why I love to talk with Steve, because he talks we talk a lot about beyond a terrarium design, this beyond level, because there are all the emotions and the impact you can create and the real stories. Because we love to design and we are most of the time we make the design so important or we made ourselves the designers. Like you said, we are not the hero. You started already the conversation with that very important. You're not the hero. Your client is the hero. So I really love it. You talk about this, definitely about this beyond thing, the effect of what you can create. That's the impact you're going to create, all those stories.

Speaker 1: 10:33

You talk about design. Your podcast is beyond interior design. We're talking about there's nothing to do with design. I'm not talking about focal points, instruction. We're talking about way deeper.

Speaker 2: 10:44

That's it. Yeah, that's why I'm so interested in the world beyond the terrarium design, because eventually, that is it, that's the whole point of our profession. Right, we can create this. So, yeah, I love that you're telling this what I can't imagine there's not. Even I never met one single interior designer that told me I don't want high-end clients. Everybody is craving for high-end clients. What is the magic? What is it? Is it just about the money? What is a high-end client for you? What's your definition?

Speaker 1: 11:19

So you have two types you have. So you need normal clients with jobs, the higher-end client. Everybody wants the higher-end job. Let me just be clear what a high-end client is. The jobs are usually larger jobs. They take more of your time. They're more demanding. The margins necessarily have to be as great. That's it. Sometimes you don't want a high-end client because it's way more work than just a normal person who appreciates what you do. High-end clients don't want excuses, they don't want to hear your stories. They want it done fast. They want it done right. They don't mind paying, but, most importantly, nobody wants to get ripped off. That's it. That's how you treat a high-end client. Be very transparent with the high-end clients because they can smell the BS immediately. That's why they're clients.

Speaker 2: 12:19

Yeah, they know how to play the game. That's how we call it. They know how to play the game in life. So, yeah, you have to pay attention to it and you have to make sure you design your business that well that, like you said, they don't accept the BS. So, yeah, it's gonna be sharp, sharp.

Speaker 1: 12:36

Yeah, don't try to fake the funk. Don't try to give them fake answers. Just deal straight because they're busy people and this is why they called you. They don't need the heading, they gotta go out. It's very simple formula with the high-end client. That's how I would break down the high-end clients.

Speaker 2: 12:51

If you're not at that level stay away. Yeah, you need to be prepared for these kind of levels.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 12:58

Yeah, then another word that's part of most of the time is a kind of dream word. It's almost like, hey, I have clients who wants carte blanche. Does it really exist, carte blanche?

Speaker 1: 13:11

What's carte blanche? Like I have no budget.

Speaker 2: 13:14

Do whatever you want to do. You're free. You're the designer, you're the creative. Do your job and Everybody has a budget.

Speaker 1: 13:21

I don't care how much money you have. I'm sorry, but everybody wants to know what it's gonna cost, what it's gonna look like. But I get it to a point where they trust me to make design decisions. I think that's a big difference. Hey, this is $5, but if I spend $50, it'll last longer. It's much better. They trust me to do that. Make wise decisions for them. It's not comp launch. You just go out and go on a spending spree with no regard to their money, because they work hard for their money. So they really appreciate you really digging deep and get them the best value. You want to value, engineer each and every item for sure.

Speaker 2: 14:00

Yeah, digging deep, literally sometimes for you. Yeah, absolutely Dig deep to design lights. That's how we call it, Marjolf, that's what you do. Yeah, and what about the participation part, the involvement of a client? How do you see that process? Because it's hard sometimes to deal, like I said before, to deal with all these emotions and excitement and maybe frustrations or doubts, fears about the whole design doesn't come together. What's your opinion about it? Would you love to be involved? Do you love to involve them?

Speaker 1: 14:38

Well, yeah, because, like I said early on, it's like they're the hero. You're trying to design something that they will like, that they will appreciate, but there's a fine line between the over-involvement and then trusting me to do the job. You really want to build up that trust, because once they trust you, then they're not micromanaging, then they're not picking. That's when things start to go bad, absolutely. So you want to build up that trust and you want to show them how you are the expert in your field, that you can show them the way, and then they're not going to learn everything that you know. You can't absolutely teach somebody 40 years of experience, a client watching, because that's when I've noticed, when they start getting too involved in it, it's never good, never good.

Speaker 2: 15:27

No, then you have your alarm clock. Needs to go off like, hey, there's something going wrong. They don't trust me, I don't have the system set up.

Speaker 1: 15:36

I yeah, I've been there Lots of times. Lots of times it happens. So that's another key takeaway Make sure your spidey senses don't go off on these certain clients that tend to. But I find the higher end clients are very busy and they just want to hire the right guy for the right job, and price is not so much as an issue. They don't like paying the premium, but they want it done right and because they're busy running their own life and business and they don't have time to be chasing you around.

Speaker 2: 16:10

Yeah, that's the good news, right? So that's exactly what we experience lots of time. When they have the trust in you, you can have, you can create your own creative freedom, all the freedom in the world to work with them, because you need to put them as the hero, like you said, but then you have all the freedom and time to do your own job. If they trust your processes right, if they know what's your next move and you can guarantee that, then they are quite calm to work with, I can imagine, and you can do what you love to do.

Speaker 1: 16:44

Absolutely. You want to set the process up, set the expectations up early on, like what to expect. What's the next? Especially when you're working interior, if you guys are. I'm talking about beyond the design. Now we're speaking about beyond the design. We're actually the design is done. You're in the construction phase of it. I'm assuming your people have to be involved with some portion of the construction to make sure the integrity of the design is upheld. That's when it gets sticky. When the contractors are in the house or working and you've been there for three months, the newness wears off. They're tired of looking, you're tired of them, they're tired of you. It's time to finish up and move on. So another thing to keep in mind they don't want you hanging around too long.

Speaker 2: 17:25

No, no, no, definitely not, no, we don't want that. We want a short, smooth design process, for sure, and then you can pause it onto the next people, probably the creations.

Speaker 1: 17:36

It's gonna kind of like with the design process. You wanna make sure you have a good graphical representation of what you're designing. So when the contractors are doing the job, there's no change orders, there's no miscommunication. Everything starts with the design. You need a good design. It helps everybody stay on the same page much better.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Yeah, well, happy to hear that. Yeah, so how do you deal with this? Unexpected challenges? So things are moving on the way. If something goes wrong, I can imagine your answer. Well, don't tell them BS. Don't lie to them for sure. Tell them the truth. What's your strategy when things are going really, really wrong in the wrong direction?

Speaker 1: 18:18

Very, very good question because I decided to make lemonade out of lemons. Couple of years ago we had an eight-foot wall fall down. True story it fell down, flooded his pool mud was in the pool mud got in the house disaster.

Speaker 1: 18:35

So I called him up. I said you may not wanna come home for a couple of days. We have a little situation here. It was just summer home. So I was upfront and honest and that's it. You just leaders, lead. You rally the troops. You call the pool guy, you get the pool pumped out. You call the restoration company, you just deal with it, you get it fixed. And I assured him that I got this and the conviction in my voice and he knew that I was gonna step up and get it done. It got done. Nobody freaked out. You just deal with it. That's what you deal with in situation. That's how you deal because things it's construction, things are gonna go bad. We rip out a gas line. You deal with it like they're looking for the leader. Remember, they're looking for the. Now you're the yoga to be the hero. You gotta, like, step up and get it done. That's why they're paying you the big bucks.

Speaker 2: 19:28

Yeah, so at the end is just a very big wall will fall down in the pool. How you fixed it? Simple as that.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Yeah, you know a little whatever but, thank God, nobody got hurt.

Speaker 2: 19:42

No.

Speaker 1: 19:43

You know, but they want to know that you got their back and that they hired the right guy to handle.

Speaker 2: 19:48

That's it Just then a really funny thing that might happen when you have a bad experience with clients, but you, you fixed it really well, you changed, you became the hero when, when there was a problem. Most of the time you're like, oh no, this is, this is not part of the of what I meant to do, but there is a problem and at the end they saw you being that hero and they became such a raving fence because they saw how you handle the bad situations. When everything goes really smooth. There's always a strange thing in my mind. We have the sometimes the best testimonials of people who experienced the bad stuff because they saw how we fixed the situations and then they knew well, they are the right party for me because something goes wrong in future, they know how to handle it and it became even bigger fan that's. Have you created that with with this client, with this big wall? Yeah, Funny, funny, is it how that works? So this is literally lemonade out of lemon.

Speaker 1: 20:49

Yeah, and then let me know the lemon. You know, don't point the fingers, don't say was this guy fall? Take ownership Like just I will fix it, I'm, I'm, the buck stops here, that's it. So in your mentorship group, the most designers that they, they cross over to the contracting or they kind of project managing any jobs. You know what I'm saying. Like I'm trying to see.

Speaker 2: 21:14

Really depending on how you design your business. We're a big fan of kind of well, we call it a blockchain. So you're the designer. That your expertise, you dig deep to design light, you. You create a wonderful design. You get the value for that, the trust, the expertise. Everybody's willing to pay you for that and then it's up to you. Do you want to to assist the construction phase or do you do you have a really cool team with create managers and all the people, constructors over there? You know exactly what to do because they are part of your company culture. That's the ideal situation for us at least, those are our terms. But I'm very curious how you, how you organize that with your, with this kind of design part and construction phase.

Speaker 1: 21:56

So I find that a lot of times that when we design the project, the client wants us involved in the project as much as because contracting is a is a whole nother podcast, it's a whole nother.

Speaker 1: 22:08

It's a whole nother animal Like, but just the design. But I find that when you design the project they want the guy that designed to make sure it goes in as per design and they'll pay you for that. They'll pay you to ensure the integrity of the design. You're not just going to take some plan and handle off to some contractor and let them go out shopping for the cheapest price, because that never works. You need to really hold their hand, help them pick out the contractor, refer some good guys, you know, because the design is actually the easy part, like the install is the hard part, but it starts with the design. Good design equals good everything. So they can give them a good design, they can give you a good price, they can firm up the price. There's not a lot of guesswork in there. So it all kind of goes hand in hand for sure.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Yeah, yeah, I was not aiming for completely handed over out to for other people, but you need to have a disconnection. You still want that. But the good thing is you can be on a designer spot or the designer chair, in that case, designer stage, whatever you want to call it. In this construction phase, you don't have to be the one who's managing everything, but just they want to know is he still guiding this? Yeah, is the design in control? Is it exactly like the like the design is? Sometimes you just need to kind of touch point, touch point in this processes, but I don't think you mean to manage the whole process. Right that you are the designer and the construction manager, right? Is that a good combination?

Speaker 1: 23:38

I've done it. It's not easy to we have project managers that separate the project that I can hand off and they can run the project with it, so we have like two divisions in one with the design on and then we have the construction on it for those clients that you know want us to oversee the project for sure.

Speaker 2: 23:56

Yeah. Yeah, I was managing a lot in my first years as a designer, but I saw it kind of like learning how to design better because people have to understand my design right. There was a kind of learning I could do it, but it was very stressful for me at that time to organize all that.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Yeah, I think, with with all the years of construction experience that I have, I think it helps you be a better designer. Yeah, that's what it did. You know what works, because a lot of times I hear a lot of friction between the designer, your architect and the contractors like why does this guy design it like this? You can't build it. So you have to be able to design something that not only looks pretty, that somebody can build.

Speaker 2: 24:38

Exactly, yeah, yeah. So you need, sometimes you need some sessions with those guys who really creating it, that they, that they have their own thoughts, like, hey, you can do it better this way, but let's, let's save the, the, the concept in general, because that's they already invested in your design and now the creation part is a different, different invoice, let's call it that way. So they want to make sure all the efforts was not for nothing. Right that they're not that literally become dreamscapes in your place, that this is the dreamscape but this is the actual landscape.

Speaker 1: 25:10

Correct.

Speaker 2: 25:11

Yeah, yeah, well, an ex unrealistic expectations and demands. Sometimes it can feel like that. Do you have a great example of? Well, I know you create waterfalls and creeks or whatever. I think you just hardly nothing impossible for you I can imagine. But we have an example that people were asking you something. You were like, no way I. This is.

Speaker 1: 25:39

No, you just did it, you created it. Listen, I can put trees up on 34 stories in New York City with a crane. I can build waterfalls on pools on a cliff. Anything is most everything is possible, but pretty much at a price. Right like, I can put the waterfall, the pool on the cliff, but it's going to cost you X amount more because I have to support after chop the rock. I mean, we do a lot of that where you know you live on a mountain. I have to put the hole in the ground to put the pool. We have to hammer the rock out. We're doing a job now. It was like 50,000 just to take the rock out of the hole, right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:20

I mean it's all relative. I mean I won't do nothing if it's not safe because it also be designed by the engineers. It all has to, it all has to work. But we're pretty much not afraid to. You know, tackle whatever right Because of the land is different, difficult right. It's not like open farmland where it's flat. That's not your difficult, it's in the city, on the mountains, it's just. You know you have to kind of accommodate certain environmental issues to take to tackle the project.

Speaker 2: 26:51

So actually anytime when people have kind of dreams, wishes, you're like when it's the first time you need to do it, you're like, why not, let's, let's find out how to do it.

Speaker 1: 27:01

You gotta be, you can't be wishy washy. Absolutely, we can do that, no problem. Don't say, oh, I think we can, let's see, you know. You say, yeah, let me get back to you, I will do my due diligence and I think we can get it done. Like you know, you want to be. They want to make sure they're hiring the right guy.

Speaker 2: 27:18

Now you said it with the like, with the right words, like, hey, let's see what we can do, let's find out. Yeah, take, I will take my time to find out if this is possible. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Absolutely, of course we can do it, you know, don't you know? They want to know that you're the, you're the guy.

Speaker 2: 27:32

Yeah, so this is the proof. This is the proof if you can manage it, you're a guy, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:37

You're the guy. You're the guy and they want to know that they're giving you the ball. You're the guy. Like, don't you know? Wishy washy would make you know. You're the guy. I got this. I'm in control. I've been doing this for a long time. You have the right guy and that's part of that building that trust right. So they build that trust within a. So, once they begin to you know, genuinely trust you. You know, but you have to perform on your, on your word, right. You can't know if you say it's going to be done by Friday. You make sure it's done by Friday, yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:08

I don't want to hear stories. They don't want to hear.

Speaker 1: 28:12

Oh, the guy didn't deliver this. Nobody cares, I don't care, that's it, that's it. That's the whole secret to everything.

Speaker 2: 28:21

That's the whole secret. What's that you told me the first time? You know what you told me like a why are you, why are you not doing gardens as well as a different expertise? And you know what you said to me.

Speaker 1: 28:34

I forget.

Speaker 2: 28:36

Is that a garden? It's just an interior design without a ceiling.

Speaker 1: 28:41

Yeah, pretty much it's the same thing, but there's no paint on the walls. Yeah, it's the same thing the flooring. The flooring is the grass of the patio, the walls are like a hedge of privacy, the ceiling could be a tree that overhangs canopy. The lighting and the lamps are the same thing. With the lamps it's the same principles, exactly the same, just different materials.

Speaker 2: 29:05

Yeah, so people that I do see some interior designers or design offices. They have to guard and end the house together. They combine these expertise, but sometimes they have trouble to sell it in some way or to organize it in a way. What's your advice on that one? But it looks like a turnkey solution, right, like I can fix everything your complete residential living, outdoor life.

Speaker 1: 29:30

But keep in mind those that the knowledge I need to have for design the outside is different than the inside. I need to know about soil, I need to know about plants. I need to know all that. That's a different set of information that I need. Same with on the interior. I can't design. I have no idea. I couldn't design that. I kind of get in principle, but I'm not picking out paint colors or couches. That's not my thing. So I stick to my lane and I team up with interior designers and then we go in there as a collaboration because then the owner can get what they want a harmonious unit between the inside and the outside. You don't want to have one design, a style on the inside, one on the outside. It really needs to all go together.

Speaker 2: 30:12

Yeah, that's eventually their wish. Right, that's what they're telling you. Can you create one zone out of my private residence, right, yeah? So again, that's the. If you ask them, why, why? Why is that they want this unique, balanced environment where they can live their life on their terms, right?

Speaker 1: 30:30

Correct. It creates harmony, that's all.

Speaker 2: 30:33

Yeah, yeah. Then how do you find clients in this competitive market? That's another thing. We have innovation, creativity, but then another thing is always marketing. You're a creative. I know what you can't create, but what is it? How do you do it? What's your name?

Speaker 1: 30:51

I'm 63 years old.

Speaker 2: 30:54

You have a network for sure.

Speaker 1: 30:57

I've been at work for a long time. I learned the social media. I'm doing the best I can, I hire people, but they always seem to let you down a little bit, I think, when the push comes to shove, all that technology stuff and all that is great, but I think it comes down to trust. Building your referral base. I mean really, when push comes to shove, I can always go to my Rolodex and create some work somewhere for sure. That's the value of everything we spoke about early on, and the trust and saying what you're going to do and do what you're going to say. That's money in the bank. Even if the internet goes away, you still have that.

Speaker 2: 31:36

Yeah, that's very powerful, I think, a very safe feeling that you know when the internet is. I can imagine a lot of interior designers that do have another opinion because you don't have the other network, you only have online.

Speaker 1: 31:51

Yeah, they only have online and that goes away. I still have my people, I can go to.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Yeah, build on, build with. Yeah, wonderful, let's get back because it's now. You're, like I said, one of the fast-growing circustructive companies in the US. How does it start? Because most of our listeners, they do have a small interior design firm or a creative firm, graphic design, landscape architects, maybe they were one of two or a team of five. How does it became on a size that you were like, hey, this is what's going on here.

Speaker 1: 32:31

As far as what the size?

Speaker 2: 32:33

Yeah, the size of your company, or? You just started with designing your first garden, right, let's really go back to the first garden. How does something develop like this in such an amazing business you built?

Speaker 1: 32:47

Again, 40 years is a long time. You just need to feed it, you just need to keep going. One job, the smaller. First job was planting two trees. The second job was four trees. The next job somebody asked me to do a patio. It just developed as this thing. Now they're asking me to design entire micro resorts in their backyard. It didn't happen overnight. Didn't happen overnight. No, again, I don't give myself enough credit.

Speaker 2: 33:16

I really don't.

Speaker 1: 33:18

I'm very humble about it. It's just another job, I don't know. It's plants, rocks, dirt, mulch, water. It's the same seven or eight things, but every job. That's really all it is.

Speaker 2: 33:34

It sounds every time it sounds easy. When I speak to you, I'm like, yeah, that's just it. That's just it.

Speaker 1: 33:41

I try to tell my people, guys, we're not doing brain surgery. I'm playing with dirt, rocks, mulch. Really, I play with dirt and I play with plants and spray paint. Because I spray paint that it's not that hard. They make it hard. The project made me just make it hard.

Speaker 2: 34:02

Do you think a lot of people make it hard for themselves with businesses and their passion?

Speaker 1: 34:08

Yeah, yeah. Overcome, can't make decisions Can't come up with a timeline. I saw a couple of chat from Laura, I think, was coming up with this. She had a question there about the fees. We'll get to that. Yeah, you have to just be organized and communication is the key. That's really it, whether you're doing a small job or big jobs, right yeah?

Speaker 2: 34:39

Yeah, okay, about the lean. So well, just to phrase it, you talk a lot about emotions. That's where you touch with your design, right? Yes, you started with it, but it was so obvious for me when you said it like all the emotions that are involved, what is it that they want to feel? Not about what you make, but how you want to make them feel.

Speaker 1: 35:03

Sure, this is your starting point, absolutely. I don't need to know. You like blue or red or green? We'll get to that later. Don't tell me the yellow flowers. We'll get to that later. Right now, how do you want to feel when you go into the space? That's question number one.

Speaker 2: 35:20

Okay. Yeah, just take me over your process. Then we go a little bit more deeper. How do you know the kind of feeling? You're discussing some elements that are connecting with this feeling.

Speaker 1: 35:32

We'll talk about some elements. Some people like certain things and we'll get to that. I try to keep them in the moment, because sometimes they want to talk about flowers and there's a hole in their backyard. We're not at that stage. I try to keep them zeroed in a little bit. There are a couple of good questions there. Realistic timelines that's all good, those are great questions, whoever that is, those are real questions. You want to manage the expectations.

Speaker 2: 36:04

Yeah, Again, you're just like yeah, this is it. Manage the expectation and you're done with your story.

Speaker 1: 36:10

This is always a strategy. Yeah, realistic timelines and realistic timelines. Don't tell somebody you can get it done in two months. No, it's going to take you six months. Like they don't want. Don't tell them that If you say you're going to be done in three months, you get done in three months. Obviously, during COVID and all it was out of our control because of the material, but you need to stick to those deadlines at all costs.

Speaker 2: 36:38

Yeah, what is success? Called for you, steve, how do you describe success?

Speaker 1: 36:46

I don't know. What do you mean? How do you describe success? I mean do what I want, what I want. I don't know Pretty much. What do I do now?

Speaker 2: 36:58

Yeah, we talk about most of the time like designing your own business, but designing your business around your lifestyle and not the other way around. So we are defining the terms your own terms. If you know, I am not the best person in the morning, why should you schedule morning appointments with clients?

Speaker 1: 37:19

No, it's not about. It's not about you're going to work your ass off. Okay, I don't care If you think you're going to run a design business, construction business, whatever. Don't think you're going to hire people and you're going to sit on the beach. Doesn't happen. I get up every day. I still grind, 40 years later. That's it. There's no, unless you're Mark Zuckerberg or Twitter or one of those guys. It ain't not in this business. You better go find another business. That is one thing for sure.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Thanks for sharing.

Speaker 1: 37:50

Yeah, no, it's what you have to love when you do right, so it kind of works hand in hand. So you, I mean, think about it, I get to spend your money and building cool shit in people's backyards Pretty cool job. I'm outside, I mean, yeah, those are the good days, those are the good days, it's a nice weather, you're outside, I got it. And then there's the bad days, when the wall falls down, it's raining. So you, you know, I guess the moral of the story is there's no perfect scenario. Like, everybody has pluses and minuses. Whatever field you're in, whatever job you're doing, it's work right, it's it all. It's what it is.

Speaker 2: 38:27

Wonderful. What's next for you? What's on your bucket list?

Speaker 1: 38:35

Honestly, we're moving towards design, moving more towards design, and you are my first guy across the pond, like that's it. I'd like to go more global and designing more global because it's the same material the plants are different the materials, but it's the same concepts, like traveling, because I'm in New York Like it's November now, it's getting cold, like we shut down for Christmas and it's cold, so, but there's other parts of the world or wherever you can just go and design, and that's kind of what that's next for me. That's that's where I'd like to get this thing for sure.

Speaker 1: 39:11

I don't spray paint and I do what I got to do design a couple of pictures and you know. But the construction end of it is hard. The actual managing of the project, that's tough part of the job for sure. Yeah, the designing is the easy part. The implementation and execution of it is way hard because you're depending on a lot more people and a lot more other outside circuitous. So it's hard.

Speaker 2: 39:35

Yeah, yeah, there, there. You need to be the real business owner to get them aligned and to collect a team that everybody is in your. Yeah, we go to the kind of you need to have a kind of design relationship and principles right, because they need to. They need to know what your higher purposes of your design and everybody needs to get that. How do you work with your, how do you work with your team on that on that side? Because something is hard. You have a great Carpatoria, have a great gardener in your case, but then they need to know what the higher purpose of the impact you want to create with your design. How do you get them on the same page? Are they? Are they really direct, communicating with your clients, or is it always you that does all?

Speaker 1: 40:14

the communication? No, no, they this most of the contracts I've used for like over 20 years, so they kind of know how I work. I mean, you know, they know how I work.

Speaker 2: 40:23

Yeah, so you created it. You created the team. Everybody knows this is. This is Steve Griggs. Oh my God.

Speaker 1: 40:31

They. We use like 20 different companies, like I'll know which contractors to send to certain jobs, which form to send, because the clients kind of need a little more handholding than others. So you have to, kind of you know, just finesse that through. Like you need to know your clients, you need to know what subs to bring, the contractors are, the trade partners are. The is the key to the whole job. Honestly, like the design is great, but the guys that do the work mad. Respect for crazy. Respect for hard workers by far like hard work.

Speaker 1: 41:11

Yeah it's the same.

Speaker 2: 41:13

Yeah, yeah. I think it's the same with the entire design. I'm always like, oh, they have to do the job, so we're months creating and all this ordering stuff, organizing on times managing the whole team. This is, this is the real job, yeah. And then we have a kind of easy job. That's the easy job.

Speaker 1: 41:31

Yeah, go on and hang sheetrock or or build a rock wall or dig holes all day, and that's hard work. It's not mental, it's hard work.

Speaker 2: 41:42

Physical, physical hard work when it's 98 degrees out it's.

Speaker 1: 41:46

It's hard work, for sure.

Speaker 2: 41:48

Yeah, well, you're to find out. Yeah to the party, please. Your best seller. Your book is called Straight Dirt, cool, cool, cool, cool title, because it's totally you with a subtitle. New York's city premier designer tells it like it is. Well, I think that's what you did today. You're in the podcast, just tells like it is. I'm always like, okay, what's good, is there coming more? No, this is this answer. This is it. This is the key. This is the truth. That's it.

Speaker 1: 42:20

There's. Oh, that's from New York. I was born like this. My father was in construction business, he worked for the union. So it's always, you know, tell them, even if it hurts. I tell clients. I think I think also with the design. Like you know, I don't pander to. Like you know, I'll just tell them what they want to hear, like if it doesn't work or doesn't look it, I will tell you that's going to look like crap.

Speaker 1: 42:43

I'm sorry, it's going to look terrible. And they really appreciate. Like I think for your, for your people in your, in your group, and all that like don't do that, like don't pander to the client. You know you want to hear them out and all, but if you feel strongly about a design decision, you got to stick to your convictions and tell them why it's a bad choice, you know. So you do more like coaching interior designers.

Speaker 1: 43:13

I wish there was somebody like this when I started 40 years ago, cause there wasn't. I had to learn my own way. You know, I had to learn the hard way. Like, if someone like you came in and said I can coach you how to be a great interior designer, I would sign up immediately because it would save you so many years of heartache and money loss and like, oh man, like it's so easy. Now you just jump on a Zoom, call you guys and you can guide them to your whole process and follow the blueprint. Follow the blueprint, like it's here. You got the instruction manual. Why beat your head against a rock for 30 years like I did? Whatever I mean, you know, yeah same same, same same likes.

Speaker 2: 43:53

When I did my, my campaign with, when we finished design school, we were like, okay, and where's the business part? There is something to fix here with all dealing with all this emotions and the business side and money wise, and we have no idea. We know how to create designs for our own purposes, but not even for real clients, you know. So we are like, okay, we need to educate ourselves big time. So we spent thousands, well over 100,000 euros dollars over the years, but it's, you will earn it back for sure Because, like you said, there are blueprints out there and now we're sharing our blueprint with our business and you can copy paste it and make it your own, put your own personality into it, and well, we unlock your own personality on that way, because it needs to fit you. There's no? Yeah, well, it saves you at least the highway, right, it's a highway to somewhere, and then you can decide what you like when you go to your own destination.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Yeah, pick what you like and you know you're not gonna. You know, pick what you like, make it your own and move on. Get. Take the highway. Why take the back roads? Take the highway. Yeah, it's a no brainer for sure.

Speaker 2: 45:08

Well, you have a gift. You can everybody can download your, your actual book straight birth as an e-book. We will put it on our website.

Speaker 1: 45:17

Yeah, yeah, it's a hardcover. I mean I can't ship the hardcover. You have the link. Send it to whoever. It's a hardcover book for the coffee table, If any of your interior designers are out there and the book was huge for us, Like the book is huge. So if you're gonna do anything once you've finished taking your classes and your courses and they move on down the road and they have a big enough portfolio to create a book, everybody should have a book. It sets credibility up. It makes you the expert. It's a slam dunk, yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:50

I remember my first book and it was not even an official book. It was a time that you can create which are holiday photos. You can create a book. You know it was the first hard copy. Yeah, you just go to a kind of supermarket and you can print it. And with my first kind of high-end clients I was like I need to have a book. So I took my best project so far and my best story is just kind of quotes and topics in it and I ordered this book. Like it was like I had hundreds of copies of it and they just gave it to them as a gift and they were like, wow, and they really liked this book. It got me to another level. Yeah, then you could raise your value, yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:31

You got the value I mean, I mean so you got the trust yeah, you got the trust.

Speaker 1: 46:35

We spoke a lot about that. I mean, you know this was really good, I enjoyed talking to you, but, like you know, you have the whole. Then you have the business side of you have the actual designing and this, or then you have the whole marketing side and that whole. That's a whole, nother.

Speaker 2: 46:50

That's another thing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:51

That's another thing. You need clients, you need business. You can design. I don't care if you're the best designer. You need to make money, you need to get clients. That's how it works. For 20 years I'm like, oh, I just love what I do, the money will follow. It never followed, it never was there. Like you know what I'm saying. Like, run it like a business. It's a for-profit business. Designers are for-profit. Don't undersell yourself. Charge what you're worth. That's what I feel is a lot of designers. They don't feel like they charge what they're worth. Right, it's a mind. It is. It's in your head. Who's going to pay me 10 grand for a design? Like you know, it's really crazy. But when you build up the value of it and how much money they're going to save when the project goes on time on budget, the value is like you're taking your mentorship program. The value is there. It's kind of obvious.

Speaker 2: 47:45

Thanks, rick Steve, for your story. I love your honesty, your openness, your simplicity, sometimes Like it's just like that, and I think it will definitely open up a lot of minds, creative minds that are like, hey, it can be that easy, but you need to use your passion and energy in the right way and have your story straight, because that's one you created over the years. You have your story straight. That's why I love to share your book with the audience. They can see how you tell your story. You have a great one-liner and I really liked it. It's on the header of your website, you can watch it online and you can connect with the things that matter most.

Speaker 2: 48:32

That's it. I love it because it has nothing to do with God and design, with whatever thing, but you connect with what matters most and it's up to them what matters most.

Speaker 1: 48:43

Friends and creating memories. That's what matters most. I mean that's it.

Speaker 2: 48:47

I love that. This is beyond. This is the impact you create for them, the life you can design for your customers, and that's the fulfillment right and the higher purpose of creating that. Yeah, it's the kind of power we have as designers and creators.

Speaker 1: 49:07

That's it. When somebody comes out and says before you built my pool, my husband couldn't swim, and now I built the pool, he can swim. That was very huge. I'll never forget that. Wow. And then he's 50 years old. He never swam, and then he could go to pool and now he could swim. So yeah, so when you look at it that way, there is a higher purpose and you do create a lot of memories and stuff like that. So there is some goods, there is a lot of good when you design the proper project, over above the money, over above that. So there is a higher purpose here, for sure.

Speaker 2: 49:41

That's it. Form follows meaning, like we call it.

Speaker 1: 49:45

That's it.

Speaker 2: 49:47

Thanks, steve. Please stay here Because for the people that are joining us live, we have a short Q&A, if you're happy to do that just for a few minutes, yeah, and for the other ones, thanks for listening, for joining us again on the live shows. If you want to join a live podcast on one moment, please have a look on our website, instituteofterryimpactcom. There it is. And as well, if you go there with slash Steve, we have the landing page ready there with more information about Steve and his book Straight Dirt and everything else you want to know of him. So thanks for that and I hope to see you next time. Thanks for listening.