Discover how Creative Director Geoffrey Timmer reshapes the world around us by prioritizing our shared humanity within the built environment. Our conversation with Joffrey takes you through the profound influence of design on our daily lives, emphasizing the importance of health, inclusivity, and diversity. Together, we unpack the notion of real architecture, where the emphasis shifts from fleeting aesthetics to enduring personal resonance, challenging the status quo of an image-driven industry with insights into human behavior and experiential spaces.
Delve deep into the art of collaboration and the ideologies that drive successful design teams. Our discussion highlights the necessity for client engagement and the extraordinary outcomes that result from a multidisciplinary approach. We navigate the delicate interplay of ego and creativity, stressing on empowering the voices of young, audacious designers who bring forth an innovative spark to the industry. By cultivating an inclusive environment, we reveal how diverse team dynamics can not only refine a design concept but transform it into something truly groundbreaking.
Peering into the future, we dissect how relevance in design is pivotal for crafting spaces that resonate with our evolving lifestyles. Flexibility, sustainability, and the integration of mixed reality emerge as key themes, ensuring that our creations stand the test of time while responding to the diverse needs of the community. The episode concludes by contemplating the ongoing metamorphosis of design and architecture, fueled by generational shifts and a collaborative ethos, and we extend an invitation for you to join the conversation on these captivating developments.
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
Discover how Creative Director Geoffrey Timmer reshapes the world around us by prioritizing our shared humanity within the built environment. Our conversation with Joffrey takes you through the profound influence of design on our daily lives, emphasizing the importance of health, inclusivity, and diversity. Together, we unpack the notion of real architecture, where the emphasis shifts from fleeting aesthetics to enduring personal resonance, challenging the status quo of an image-driven industry with insights into human behavior and experiential spaces.
Delve deep into the art of collaboration and the ideologies that drive successful design teams. Our discussion highlights the necessity for client engagement and the extraordinary outcomes that result from a multidisciplinary approach. We navigate the delicate interplay of ego and creativity, stressing on empowering the voices of young, audacious designers who bring forth an innovative spark to the industry. By cultivating an inclusive environment, we reveal how diverse team dynamics can not only refine a design concept but transform it into something truly groundbreaking.
Peering into the future, we dissect how relevance in design is pivotal for crafting spaces that resonate with our evolving lifestyles. Flexibility, sustainability, and the integration of mixed reality emerge as key themes, ensuring that our creations stand the test of time while responding to the diverse needs of the community. The episode concludes by contemplating the ongoing metamorphosis of design and architecture, fueled by generational shifts and a collaborative ethos, and we extend an invitation for you to join the conversation on these captivating developments.
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
I think the power of design is always to make meaningful differences for people. And yeah, where are we heading with design? I think it's the most difficult question to answer, but you do see a lot of things happening. So you see that there is more focus on health. There is, I think, a lot of focus on inclusivity and diversity, which I really think is a good thing. I think we are mindful of generation changes, so you see that the characteristics of different generations, they demand for different solutions, but also things like mixed reality. So how does the digital work world and the physical world come together? I think all of these things are shaping, let's say, the future of materials.
Speaker 2:All right, hi there, welcome to a brand new episode of Beyond Interior Design. Thank you for being here. I'm Marc Müskens, your host, and together with Sven van Buuren, we are the proud founders of the Beyond Interior Design Club, and this is where we provide interior designers with the tools and training they need to take their businesses to new heights. If you're curious, go to beyondtheterrordesignclub. Well listen, interior design is a constantly evolving field that requires innovation, provides ideas and new perspectives, and we believe that designers possess a unique ability to create spaces that leave lasting impact on people's life, and that's why we're so committed to helping interior design entrepreneurs to tap into this potential.
Speaker 2:Based on our core philosophy form follows meaning. So when I spoke to our inspirational guests of today for the very first time, I knew he should be in the Beyond Interio r Design podcast. His vision, his perspective on the design and architecture world is beyond. He's head of design creative director at Collier's Amsterdam is a research driven designer from urban planning to real estate and from architecture to interior design, and today is here to inspire us on how to add more meaning, more relevance, to our designs, to create real impact. So please welcome Geoffrey Timmer.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Marc. Thanks for the introduction, and well nice to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you. Thanks for your time. Well, we're going to talk about participation, relevance in design research, the culture of architect and design firms. So we have a lot of topics today, but let's start. I read an article about you, a post on LinkedIn. I can't remember where it was really, but you said I love to make real architecture. What is that real architecture?
Speaker 1:Difficult question to answer. Obviously, and to be honest, I cannot be the judge of what is real architecture and what isn't. But what I would like to recommend, and basically I would like to recommend all of your listeners, is to listen either to the audio book or to read the book of Rick Rubin which is called the Creative Act, A Way of being, and I think he addresses a couple of things about architecture and about art in general quite good, I would say. And one of the things he basically says is the importance of awareness, so being really aware of what you're feeling and what you're seeing and what you're hearing and these kind of things, without drawing immediate conclusions. And I think really experiencing art of architecture is really about being aware and feeling if things fit or click or real or feel real, and it's really a personal feeling. I would say there's no real judge to it.
Speaker 2:I would say it's about feeling, it's about experience instead of aesthetics. Definitely yeah. So the aesthetics, the design, is a kind of means to the experience.
Speaker 1:Well, aesthetics is always obviously important and it's the first thing people see, but I would say it's a little bit like these records. So you have these incredible records which, the first time you hear them, you're immediately blown away. But sometimes, let's say, this feeling doesn't last. And there are these records which take a little bit more time to get adjusted to or to get acquainted to, but ultimately they end up being this masterpiece. Or you hear things which have never heard before and that I think could also work for architecture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sounds to me like sometimes it's with a song here it's the first time you're like, well, maybe there's something good in it, and after a few times you're like, wow, exactly.
Speaker 1:Also visit places more often and on different days of the week and different moments in time. It will change your feeling and it will change your mind about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, right now we live in an image-driven world, right? What's your opinion about that in our profession, in architecture, in design, in terry design?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not so sure. If we live on an image-driven world, I think. I think what fascinates me more than the image-driven, let's say, mindset, is the way how human behavior works actually, and what I'm constantly fascinated about how humans interact, what they do, but also new ways of thinking new generations introduce, and this is also, I think, understanding this is for me crucial, because that's for me also the only way to make meaningful things, to really try to understand the dynamics of human behavior. So also try to understand why this, let's say, this image revolution is so important for people and why they are captured by it and why they are driven by it. That's for me, I think that's for me the essence.
Speaker 2:So you start with the human being, with the persons, with the users, with humanity.
Speaker 1:Always so for me, that's always the starting point, and I also believe that I work in an organization which is a global organization, a global real estate organization, but still I think it has this people-first mentality and for me that's crucial. So it's architecture and interior projects are always about people and about human interaction and about how people come together and why they would like to spend time there. So that's always the background of everything we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when I relate that to inspiration because some designers will tell you I have a lack of inspiration yeah, what is happening at that moment when you lack inspiration? They look for beautiful pictures, they look for some themes or concepts, but where's the real inspiration? If I hear your story, I might know your answer. But how do you get more inspiration?
Speaker 1:Well, it's everywhere and there's no fixed rule to it. So you can hear it a little bit in my voice that I loved my voice last week for all post-a-week. And what was really nice was that, due to the fact that I could not talk and I could not have, let's say, zoom meetings or calls whatever, a lot of my meetings were cancelled. That meant actually that within my working day, I got more time actually to think rather than to speak, because I think the agendas are overloading for everyone. But what happened at that moment was because I was not under so much pressure during the day, I started to see things differently again. I started to look at another way, at series, at movies, while reading books.
Speaker 1:So sometimes inspiration, or finding inspiration, is also, in a way, to get detached from the things you were always doing.
Speaker 1:Another thing is that I recently visited one of the museums in Tilburg which is called the Textile Museum, and I would recommend everyone to go there. When you have a writer's block or when you're out of creativity, please go there, because what happens there is amazing. When you walk into the Knowledge Center there for Textiles, you can see that there is a research lab there where you can really actively engage with people, with artists who are working with complex techniques of textiles. It's from tufting to laser cutting, whatever thing you can and what you can see there is that people are really obsessed in what they're doing, they really want to understand it and in a way, when you get into that mindset again, you also plug into a different type of creativity again. So there are all sorts of ways, but also go into nature, walk outside, and that's also something which a lot of people also relate to. Nowadays. Nature is such an important and inspiring source of creativity. It always changes, it's never the same, so that's wonderful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sounds good. What I thought with the inspiration part is that if you take the human, human-centered design, you can get a lot of inspiration from them, from humanity, from humans. So most of the time, if I look at our interior design firm, we are obsessive about knowing them, feeling them. We want to be our clients. We even do that, actually, for a couple of days with them. So we stay in their home sometimes we are even asleep at their place to see how they brush their teeth, how they use the kitchen, how the kids come from school. You are going to be them.
Speaker 2:So first of all, you see the problems or frustrations so you can solve it, and on the other hand, you're just like, hey, they're enjoying really that moment. There's the real experience going on. Then they get out of this moment. They break patterns. That's what you tell about finding inspiration. Last week you broke a pattern. I think that's really, really powerful because you use your time in a different way. You saw the world differently. You could not use all your senses. Literally you were not allowed to speak. Almost. Yeah sounds great. Yeah, what is it? Well, actually you told me that in the first meeting we had that there is a real big danger of the design Most well I wouldn't say most designers do architects, but we jumped too quickly into conclusions. What about that? Because, yeah, I want to know more about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when you work in a commercial business and obviously also architecture and interior architecture is restricted to strict timelines and deadlines you tend to be concerned about making it in time.
Speaker 1:What I see often is that, for instance, a research part has been kept to one day or two days in order to make sure that you reach those deadlines. But the unfortunate thing and also the fortunate thing about creativity is that you cannot capture it in time, so sometimes it simply takes a little bit more time. What I really like about the way how we are organized at Colliers and how we work together with the different departments is that we understand this part of creativity and we try to make the constraints of projects in such a way that we maximize time for creativity. And I really like that, because that means that maybe you need to do your procurement procedure slightly different or you need to organize, let's say, your meetings slightly different, but it does result in quality research time or quality creativity time, which you can really ultimately see at the end product. So that's, I think, what is important here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're literally designing the whole process that you're doing with, designing the freedom and the time blocks that you can have this extra time actually for going into this maybe obsessive research or obsessive whatever, to feel it really to get into the veins of the problem or whatever. You are literally designing that upfront to make sure that you can have this experience for your own creativity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in a way as an architect or as an interior designer, you also need to be, let's say, a process designer. Because in a way, you're creating your own freedom or you're creating your own path to success. So it's really understanding how you can be your best for your client is also by designing the way towards your end product.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wonderful.
Speaker 1:I strongly believe in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we call it. Sometimes you have to design your interiors, your architecture projects, but did you design your own business and with business we mean the whole process around to enjoy your creativity, to design your freedom of creativity, to design your financial freedom. That's also part of it, because then you are talking about time. Financial freedom and time are really connected, and that's why you don't want to have this pressure on your creativity when you're designing, let's say, your process.
Speaker 1:you're also designing your behaviors and what I really also as a recommendation and I think everyone almost read it by now but this Atomic Habits book, I think, is a great way of understanding how relevant process is to create, let's say, new habits in your design philosophy. I think that's a great source of inspiration. I would say Atomic Habits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, habits, all right. Yeah, we will create. When people well, you're listening not for the first time to this podcast you know we are creating landing pages with our guests, so this one will be instituteofinterdesign. com/geoffrey, and we will put out there some resources that we mentioned in this live podcast, so no worries. When you did the guidance, well, yeah, talking about habits, yeah, and you said, yeah, designing your own habits, because why you want to do that? What's what's?
Speaker 1:Well, you want to do that because, in a way, it helps you to feel comfortable with your design process. And there are a couple of these habits which we try to also adapt in our studio. For instance, one is about research. So don't limit research to only one person. We have a diverse team and we deliberately also try to create a mix of different backgrounds, nationalities, genders, because everyone looks at challenges differently.
Speaker 1:And I think also Rick Rubin again a great source of inspiration, and I really feel that Rick created this book, which is kind of like the follow-up of that book, the Artist Way, which was read by everyone back in the days when they got stuck into creativity. But I think he really puts it really nice that he says the information that reaches us is being filtered by each and everyone in a unique way. And when you're doing research and when you're doing that together with a couple of people, you see that you create different perspectives, different views on solving that problem because, simply, everyone filters the information in a unique way and you learn to focus on the information that is essential for you. So those are these typical behavioral things which create also, in a way, studio culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you talk about the Danish weekend jumping to quickly into conclusions there can be, if you have one researcher, you're the only one with your own perspective Exactly. You can have a wrong perspective of what's really going on or you don't see the next level of your designs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and everyone had this moment when they thought after an hour of research or a day of research. Well, I know it exactly right now and I have the exact definition of it. But then the danger of that is that ultimately it has a lot of assumptions and you get narrow minded by it, so you create this tunnel vision where you cannot step out anymore of this thinking, and this is, I think this is killing.
Speaker 2:How do you know your design is not based on assumptions? When we talk about residential design, you can just check in with your clients. You say is it really true, do I see this right? Or is it correct that you can check it and if they're not sure about it you can take some extra time to filter it? If it's really right what you see?
Speaker 1:But how?
Speaker 2:do you do it when you are working on? Well, you have big scale projects. How do you make sure you're on the right path?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if it's that different. So, in a way, when we work for organizations, we try to learn as much as we can. Obviously, learning also goes by listening to people, but ultimately you need to register, or you need after, I would say, getting all this information, you will start your analysis, and not too early, but you will start it and this analyzes. You will always present this to your clients, so you will show them. This is what we have learned, this is how we understand you, this is how we think your organization functions, and sometimes for them it's kind of like a check in the box. Yeah, indeed, it's correct. Sometimes it's an eye-opener and sometimes you're not right. It's also testing by explaining it to people, by opening up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great. Yeah, your team grew from 2 to 22 people right now. Yeah, with all gender, age, nationalities. Like you said, you are the team leader ahead of design, so you are a person who wants to get out everything from your head, from your people, so you're thriving on teamwork, but there's a really multidisciplinary approach. What your advice to small offices or just design duos or maybe single designers? How can you deal with this? Because it's all about we want to make our designs more relevant, right, like we call it. Beyond interior design, beyond design, beyond architecture, you want to touch another level that is not about the aesthetics, but the kind of importance you want to attach some extra meaning. How can you get there when you are just a small company or designer duo?
Speaker 1:I would say, be open to collaboration. So we have done a lot of pitches where we also collaborated with a lot of parties, simply because of the fact that we love to collaborate. Because when you collaborate you start to learn other perspectives, you insert, let's say, expertise from others, you learn from others. So I think also collaboration is part of a learning environment journey is to keep developing yourself and, yeah, sometimes you need to step aside of your own ego to collaborate on projects, to share profit in a way as well, but that's OK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you mentioned the word ego. Let's go deeper into that, because there is some straight things going on about authenticity, your own inner. How do you say feeling as a designer, how you see the world, your kind of ideology? How do you deal with that, even in teams? Because then you have somebody who has an idea, the other one has an idea. You don't want to compromise, you want to go to the other level. How do you deal with that? Because you're on top of the group? Well, not on top, maybe you're in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So to be honest, it doesn't feel like that. So I think we have autonomous teams who really drive their own creative process, and I strongly believe in that, because there's no one who has the right answer in architecture, in art or in interior design. So I think it's more about understanding, let's say, storylines, understanding principles, understanding concepts, rather than saying this is the right answer. So that means also that the power is, I would say, within the design teams and within the groups who are working for these clients, and obviously I would like to participate in conversations and I would like to give my opinion or give my view on it.
Speaker 1:But I also don't have the right answers. So it's really about, I would say, empowering teams, making sure they feel safe, they feel secure, they feel, let's say, open and welcomed to share their ideas, to share their vision. And we shouldn't forget that design projects are also the most vulnerable moments in the times for those, for young designers. So they need to be extremely vulnerable to show their great insights and their great work. And when you would work, then in a way that you kill those ideas based on your own.
Speaker 1:I would say that's. I would say it's not the way I would like to work.
Speaker 2:No, most of the time. Now I see it because I'm well, I'm almost 20 years graduated after this, so 15 year in business. So I do see graduation shows where designers have this kind of rebellious view on the world and I love that so much because all the rest is kind of boring or in the flow of you know, it's like, ok, yeah, good design, but it's not changing my life of the world. You have this rebellious design most of the time. They have. Well, it's not easy for them to get a job because they don't fit in really well, but there is a possibility that their dreams are slowly dying and the rebelliousness is slowly dying because they just want to fit in somewhere to earn money.
Speaker 2:So this is yeah, I found this really. I had an internship and I really felt the freedom to say whatever I liked and it was cool. They built in a moment in the design process that everybody could say it's worth, and I yes, you need to be very vulnerable because it was like, hey, you're a company existing for a few years and who am I Just graduated, or not even graduated, and you are an internship, and you're like, ok, this is just my opinion, and then if they take you serious, if it feels safe, they will. All the experienced people will take it immediately to the next level. And then there's really cool stuff happening, because you're like, yes, that's what I mean, and they take it to new heights. So, yeah, I can fully imagine that when you work in teams like that, if everybody feels like that, you can do incredible stuff with design.
Speaker 1:And what you said about being rebellious. I connect that also to that research part. So I see the strong connection with research, because one and maybe you should also listen a lot to, for instance, people like Rutger Bergmann or something like that because what they do in creating these new disruptive ideas is that they are obsessive about what they do. And this is what I really like about people, because they have this relentless commitment to what they are doing. And that's constantly what I see, also at Dutch design weeks or whenever you see people really into and going mental on these subjects.
Speaker 2:I really love that. Yeah, go even play. That's the right words. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:And when you create this space or create this environment where people feel that they can really own this subject and try to go as far as they can in these subjects, then they will also flourish and they will also feel seen and feel part of the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and most of the time when I came up with a wonderful idea, everybody was like yeah, just keep going when it's wonderful, but only when it's wrong or bad or horrible or ugly design. Then there was a kind of discussion how does it go in your firm? What are the biggest discussions on design? When it's beautiful or when it's ugly or ugly? Well, don't mention it, I don't want to call it ugly, but it doesn't feel right. It's almost like yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:So I hope that the discussion will never be about beautiful or ugly. So it should be really about did we address the problem correctly? Is it really clear what we are solving for the organization? Do we really think, or do we really feel that we have answered to the needs and to the requirements of the clients? So that should be the aim for discussion, and I think things like beautiful or ugly are so subjective that then you go again into this ego pitfall where someone is the one who can say, no, this is ugly or this is beautiful or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I would say. And then we go again to more like the relevance discussion, not about beautiful and ugly, but more about is it relevant to the organization, is it relevant to people, is it? I think it's more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this episode is called the key to relevance. So what can you say? What is the key? How do you unlock this relevance? How do you add this meaning, more meaning, to your designs? Because that's what you're doing Making it relevant is making it well. Let's describe relevance first. What is relevance? Se dzisiajaras queJi.
Speaker 1:I think we have touched upon it a couple of times in this podcast. So I think being relevant means that for me, it's a way that people would like to use things or would like to go to places or would like to be at places. Then it becomes relevant to them. It's the whole discussion about the new balance of how people organise their work and private life so they go to the places which are relevant for them at this moment.
Speaker 2:The balancing of private life and work life. Yeah, that's what it's all about when we're creating environments.
Speaker 1:I would say it's part of that. So why people go to the office is because it has a certain relevance to them, because they meet colleagues, or they have this experience where they can never find somewhere else, or there are all these kinds of things. So that's for me what makes it relevant. And then I think research is one of them, but also flexibility. We have talked in our previous talk a little bit about flexibility.
Speaker 2:You don't like that word, right.
Speaker 1:You don't like it. I think it is used in a lot of different and difficult ways, so you also need to be a bit more clear what you would like to do with flexibility. So everyone asks for flexibility, but what does it really mean? And I think that flexibility we should connect it more and more to this relevance theme, so spaces should adapt to the human behavior in a way to stay relevant to them.
Speaker 2:You talk about the relevance of over time, the durability, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So for me, flexibility is about.
Speaker 2:Not about like you can do everything on the same place. It's like a multifunctional center or something like that. We had those words in Holland a few years ago. Every hometown country had a kind of multifunctional center. It was the most exploring. You don't want to go there, you want to go everywhere, but not there it's just obviously all witchers.
Speaker 1:Obviously you want to be able to use spaces on different ways at different moments in time, but I think that flexibility is more about how do the environments stay relevant over time. So if we see that people are using the office more and more as a place where they meet their colleagues and have their meetings, then I think also the office should accommodate that. So this is more how I see it.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about hospitality. What could be the relevance of hospitality right now, these days?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what we see more and more is that and that's what I really like is that we mix environments a lot. So you see a lot of influences, of hospitality influences in offices and vice versa, and you see more retail experiences in offices or in hospitality environments. So I think that learning also from different environments and how they could be relevant to other environments is really inspiring. So that's also why our designers and our group of designers have different backgrounds. So some really have this background in hospitality, others really have this background in offices, and the funny thing is, when you let them interact or when you let them work on these different projects, you get inspiring results because they look at it from a fresh pair of eyes, from a different perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was never into the office design. I hated to be in an office. I didn't want to work for a boss in an office, so I had this thing about offices and then obviously we have some students in our membership programs which do design offices. So it is really refreshing because they bring a new level into the office world. And we have some podcast guests about office design and well, they really made me enthusiastic about the extra levels you can add to an office, how you can use the space, how you can read the space, how you can see if a company is successful or not, because of how you design the space and the floor plans. Did you see where the people are, in which space the company is? So inspiring? So I was like, oh yeah, this is new. Now they add another meaning maker or a place making element there into the world. So yeah, I love to hear that.
Speaker 2:But in terrarium design, if you talk about architecture, it can last for years. We have buildings in the world of 2000 years old, looking at the big cities in Europe, rome or whatever. Thousands of millions of people are in a year visiting those places. But then we talk about interior design and that sometimes it lasts well, with shops for a few months within terrarium design, hopefully for five years. What can we do about that? How can we make it so relevant that we don't want to change these environments too much? Because it's well, a lot of us is based on trends right Right now. You see the magazines, we see television. That's one of the frustrations I do have about the terrarium design. It has nothing to do with relevance, just about consumerism, buying new stuff, new excitement in your life, and that's it. You're getting bored for the color. Change the color and change your life. It's not that. So what's your perspective on that?
Speaker 1:That's also slightly changing, I think. So when you look, for instance I think maybe it was last year or I saw also one of these frame magazines where the editor-in-chief also indicated that they also are shifting slightly towards other topics. So I think that when you looked at the framework website, it was a lot about popping colors and about really strong, let's say, visual representations. But they are also tending more and more to, I think, very interesting topics about inclusivity, about healthy environments, about using all senses in environments. So I think that also by shifting from, let's say, color and Instagram-able characters to more relevant topics, I think also the quality of the offices change and also maybe also the durability of the offices change.
Speaker 1:But I also think that we are more and more obviously looking into and that's also something we are doing in projects as well we are registering also what we are putting into the interior. So we are looking at the environmental impact of elements, we are looking into the reusability, into the second-life option. So I think, although maybe the interiors last for a shorter time span than buildings, we try to think of second-lives or third-lives or endless-lives possibilities.
Speaker 2:That's really good news to hear from bigger companies that are doing it, because they work obviously on a bigger scale, so they can create way more impact than just designing one home, one residential area. So well, sounds great. So you are registering the pieces of furniture, the materials. You really have a kind of Bible where all the elements are there. Yeah, so we work in.
Speaker 1:Revit as a team and within these Revit models, you can obviously store a lot of data, so you can connect a lot of data to your elements, and we see that, while the data used to be limited to, let's say, color dimensions manufacturers, I think the type of information also changes which you attach to the elements, so it becomes much more, let's say, also a management tool or a facility management tool at the end, rather than only a design tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great, yeah. So again multidisciplinary, all kinds of worlds are mixing so well. Obviously the key to relevance is this kind of research thing, because you want to last, that the environment lasts longer as you design it, that people can adapt to the space, the space can adapt to them. That's a kind of success recipe for well good architecture.
Speaker 2:Is that the kind of conclusion I want to look? Is there a kind of recipe or ingredient Like you can add? It's like well, you want a good tomato soup and you put a little bit of garlic into it and then it tastes much better. What do you have?
Speaker 1:some kind of success recipes or key factors that when you add that to your yeah so luckily it doesn't work like that in design, so I'm also in a way happy about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what I do think is that also how these conversations work, and while doing a lot of conversations with people, is that you hear different bites and pieces from a lot of people and you hear all these new insights and I think you need to check and you need to test more or less on how these insights work for you as an organization.
Speaker 1:So not everything works for everyone, but you could simply test it. So also, like simple things, what we're doing at the studio is like when you start a new project, your brainstorming not only with, let's say, the core team of this project, but you make it wider, you invite people to join. Your brainstorming parties results to different, let's say, insights, and I think that that is what that should be a key takeout. So collect all these different types of information, collect all these type of different books and see how it can transform your way of working and how it can transform your life a little bit. So listen a lot to people, talk a lot to people and also don't try to only put your opinion on the table, but also listen to what others have to say and try to be mindful for that and ask questions about it. Don't think too soon that you know what it's like or how it's going to be Be curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, the key thing I took away from this episode was that you literally designed the process for that, so you don't have to think about the process every time and asking the right questions. You do have the right questions, they are there, it's in your system, in your process, so you can truly focus on the end result, on the design, on your own research. Yeah, I think that might work really well. Just not just go with the flow or designing an intuition or assumptions like, hey, this could be a beautiful place, maybe this is it. No, does it feel sure when you are on the right, when the end result is like well, this is it. Do you have a kind of certainty when you know it's there, is there because of the research, is that another?
Speaker 1:Yeah, in a way that you need to trust your instinct again. So at a certain moment you need to ask yourself did I get everything out of it? And you will feel it. And you also need to realize that. You know that and that's also something which Rick Rubin again says really nice in his book. He says don't think of all of these projects like that this needs to be your masterpiece or this needs to be your best work in life, because ultimately it will not be like that. So we saw it again and again over time, if it was with music or with art or whatever, people reinvented themselves, people started to think differently and that lead to different results and some you know it's. Enjoy it, enjoy the process, enjoy these projects, but don't put that you know big pressure on yourself that it needs to be your masterpiece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sounds great, even for a perfectionist, because we have a lot of perfectionists in our field. I guess I know a lot of them. Yeah, but so actually, what you're telling me is and that's what I feel about your vision, your perspective on the interior design and architecture world it's all one big research, it's we never have this perfect end result. It's just like let's. I think this would be the best new, best thing for humanity Use it, test it, live in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you end the project with obviously the best you could do at this moment for your clients, but then again you also learn from it once you have delivered it. So you visit it again, you see how people use it, you see how people interact with it. And what I really like and what I see again and again, is that the room for experimentation is back. So I see that a couple of organizations there to experiment within their organization to see how people react to certain changes, and that's something I really like and I really love that, because that means that you're mindful of how people are using this space and you're mindful of their inputs and how actually you can achieve to create something which was even better than you originally thought. That's also something we're currently doing for a client and I'm explicitly not naming clients or projects we're doing, because I think it's not about that and, in a way, naming one client also could make people think that this is a priority and it is not because each client is obviously as important.
Speaker 1:But what we are doing there is we are delivering a building or an interior fit out for them in 2028. But we are currently testing, within their current headquarters, our ideas, how it could work and will these kind of ideas really help people to get the best out of their work or the best out of their way of working. So I really like that, that this experiment seems to be back, and it is also a logical moment that it's back, because it is a time of uncertainty. You see that a lot of organizations struggle with the fact will people come back to the office or not, and for how many days? So that's, I think, within all of the challenges of this time. I think it's also a nice thing to do, yeah.
Speaker 2:So a last question when are we heading with the design world? What does the design feature look like in your eyes? You said we are going to. There is more experimenting nowadays. I do like that as well, because maybe that's to do with commercial aspect of we want to see new things, we want to experience new environments. We are getting bored very quickly because we see on social media the whole world is coming on your timeline, so it's hard to stand out. So where are we heading with design? How important is design in the future?
Speaker 1:I think it's super important. So I think the power of design is always to make meaningful differences for people. And yeah, where are we heading with design? I think it's the most difficult question to answer, but you do see a lot of things happening. So you see that there is more focus on health. There is, I think, a lot of focus on inclusivity and diversity, which I really think is a good thing. I think we are mindful of generation changes, so you see that the characteristics of different generations, they demand for different solutions and also things like mixed reality. So how does the digital work world and the physical world come together? I think all of these things are shaping, let's say, the future of materials. But how it will exactly look, I hope each time different.
Speaker 2:We can work on it, we can build it, we can design it right. That's the power of our expertise, our profession. Yeah, together we do have the power to design this world and to well, maybe improve humanity. Yeah, well, wonderful, Geoffrey, thanks a lot. I told you we go with the flow. That's what it was. I always prepare some kind of script to get out, at least what I would like to get out. But I loved it. You gave me some new surprises, new insights and really cool sharing your perspective on the design and architecture world. So thanks a lot for that. Good luck at calling it out.
Speaker 1:It felt like a nice conversation yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. That's a good compliment. I always would like to have that. That is not an official interview or whatever. I just, yeah, just a talk about design passionates. Yeah, well, wonderful, we are going to prepare for our listeners on Instituteofi nteriori mpact. com/geoffrey. You can have the landing page. You will go there, or beyondinteriordesign. club and you go to the blog. You can find more information on Geoffrey there. You can contact him by LinkedIn. That's the best way to connect with you.
Speaker 1:Definitely, but also feel free to visit us at the Collier's office in Amsterdam. Cool yeah, happy to have a coffee, have a talk about architecture, interiors, love it.
Speaker 2:Well, sounds great, Geoffrey. Yeah yeah, Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, people, for listening to another Beyond Interior Design podcast. Well, subscribe to the channel. Go to beyondinteriordesign. club for more information, practicalities, entrepreneurship skills, everything beyond interior design. Thanks a lot. See you next time. Bye.