Unveiling Timeless Innovation through Achille Castiglioni’s Legacy
Dive deep into "The Creative Power of Design Principles" alongside Giovanna Castiglioni, who brings a unique blend of personal insight and professional expertise to the table.
While you may not immediately recognize Giovanna's name, her inheritance of creative genius from her father, Achille Castiglioni, one of the most influential designers of the 20th century, makes her a guardian of design wisdom.
Achille's work, from the iconic Arco Lamp to the playful Mezzadro stool, has permeated our cultural fabric, shaping the aesthetics of both public and private spaces around the globe.
In this rich conversation, Giovanna, leveraging her background in geology, explores the symbiotic relationship between natural sciences and design principles. She reveals how her father's curiosity about everyday life's simplicity and functionality led to innovations that have become staples in design history. This dialogue is not merely a recounting of past achievements but a masterclass in the application of design principles that balance beauty, utility, and sustainability.
Giovanna takes us on a journey through her father's philosophy, emphasizing the importance of observing the ordinary to uncover the seeds of extraordinary design. This conversation is a treasure trove for anyone passionate about design, offering insights into how principles of simplicity, curiosity, and innovation can guide contemporary creative endeavors.
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
Unveiling Timeless Innovation through Achille Castiglioni’s Legacy
Dive deep into "The Creative Power of Design Principles" alongside Giovanna Castiglioni, who brings a unique blend of personal insight and professional expertise to the table.
While you may not immediately recognize Giovanna's name, her inheritance of creative genius from her father, Achille Castiglioni, one of the most influential designers of the 20th century, makes her a guardian of design wisdom.
Achille's work, from the iconic Arco Lamp to the playful Mezzadro stool, has permeated our cultural fabric, shaping the aesthetics of both public and private spaces around the globe.
In this rich conversation, Giovanna, leveraging her background in geology, explores the symbiotic relationship between natural sciences and design principles. She reveals how her father's curiosity about everyday life's simplicity and functionality led to innovations that have become staples in design history. This dialogue is not merely a recounting of past achievements but a masterclass in the application of design principles that balance beauty, utility, and sustainability.
Giovanna takes us on a journey through her father's philosophy, emphasizing the importance of observing the ordinary to uncover the seeds of extraordinary design. This conversation is a treasure trove for anyone passionate about design, offering insights into how principles of simplicity, curiosity, and innovation can guide contemporary creative endeavors.
Go to: beyondinteriordesign.CLUB
We have to experiment and we have to be very, very brave. This is also you have to knock the door every time If some company said no, I don't want this, I don't want to believe in this project. Nevermind Go to another company and be brave.
Marc Müskens:Welcome to the Beyond Interior Design podcast, the ultimate destination for entrepreneurial interior designers who are not only passionate about their craft, but also eager to master the skills necessary to elevate their career to new heights. If that sounds like you, then you found your tribe, especially in this episode, because we are going to dive deeper into one of the most influential designers of the 20th century, Achille Castiglioni. From Italy, he left behind a remarkable legacy in the fields of design and architecture, influencing generations of designers with his innovative approach and timeless creations. Achille Castiglioni is renowned for creating numerous design classics that have become true collector's items, and they continue to be highly prized by collectors and design enthusiasts around the world. One out of his most iconic designs the Arco lamp designed for Flos in 1962, the very first original the Earth stainless steel art floor lamp with the model base. You will recognize it. It became a huge statement for modern design.
Marc Müskens:But this work not only spans lighting also furniture and everyday objects characterized by their innovative use of materials and the functional and playful design.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Unfortunately Achille.
Marc Müskens:Castiglione passed away on December 2nd 2002, but today in the Beyond Interior Design Podcast. I am so grateful to have her, to continue the design dialogue and to keep this legacy in light. Please welcome her, the daughter of Achille Castiglioni, Giovanna Castiglioni.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Hello, how are you? Bienvenuto.
Marc Müskens:Ciao benvenuti. Thank you, for being my guest Giovanna.
Giovanna Castiglioni:You are really welcome. Yeah, you too.
Marc Müskens:Well, we have a lot to talk about today, but we met in person last year and I was invited on a charity dinner of one of my suppliers to raise money for your foundation. What was the name of your foundation? I'd love to hear your Italian. We are Italian, yeah, but I'd love to hear your Italian. What's the name of your?
Giovanna Castiglioni:foundation. You want to hear and speak Italian a little bit? No, I'm from Achille Castiglioni. In Italian, okay. Fondazione Achille Castiglioni.
Marc Müskens:Yes, sounds way better than I do.
Giovanna Castiglioni:If not, I can speak in Italian for all the podcasts there. It's up to you. Well, let's do it in English.
Marc Müskens:People are used to listening to English. Well, you gave us a very inspiring and fun presentation about the design philosophy of your father that really resonated with me. You joined us at the table and we had such a great connection, so I was like there was one thing going on in my mind. I should ask her for the Beyond Interior Design podcast.
Marc Müskens:She needs to be in it, and you said see, yeah, yes, of course I have to tell you a secret because I know literally every design icon your father designs visually, but I never knew that he designed those. So he just recently began one of my design heroes, and especially for his vision, because it goes way beyond the aesthetics, and today we're going to discover that.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So just because you're Right.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, I never heard of your father, but I know all his icons. That's crazy, right.
Giovanna Castiglioni:But also for Achille. It's really special to be in every house without people who know that he was a famous designer or he loves so much to find the object designed by himself in a normal house, so that was also really nice for him. Can you imagine? Yeah?
Marc Müskens:We're going to talk about the importance of having a design philosophy, the necessity to have your own design principles because it has such creative power. Well, your father is a great example he's the proof of that of having your own principles. He had really genuine, authentic principles that maybe drive in business and in life. So it's a lovely combination that I heard from your story.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Right.
Marc Müskens:So I'm a sponge. If you're watching or listening right now, I will recommend you will act like a sponge too, because we want to know all of it. So well, let's start with one of the four design principles of your father.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, the best one. I think that it's really true. Also, today is a link to curiosity, so he's always sad to his student if you are not curious, forget it. So if you want to be a good designer, today it's really important to be curious. You say you mentioned before, I'm a sponge, so it's important to be like a sponsor and to absorb the information everywhere, every day, about everything so well so curiosity is the main skill you need to have when you are a designer.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, but also when you are a child, when you are a little. So we have just to improve our yeah, our child inside. We have to continue to be younger inside in our mind, but also outside if it's possible. But I think it's so important to training a little bit our children inside, just to be honest, and to be focused on daily object, because you know, around us there are a lot of a lot of objects so smart and so clever and sometimes we never know who designed them.
Marc Müskens:No, well, I know you have a big, big collection while you follow Starletage, right? What kind of collection is it?
Giovanna Castiglioni:It's a collection about daily objects, anonymous objects. We say anonymous objects when we don't know who designed them, but of course there is a designer behind every object. And also nowadays I try to improve this collection, for my father was more than 1000 objects 1000?, 1000. And I try to do my best to continue this collection, but in my way. Because I'm a geologist, I move into another direction, into industrial design. I keep a live heritage of my father, but I'm really curious too. So this is why I continue to collect objects, just because I love different things. Sometimes bottles, sometimes are cartillary set, sometimes screwdriver, sometimes scissors, high glasses, shoes, why not? Toys. So something smart.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, you show this. When we met live, when you give your presentation, you show this really cool stuff. I show all the eyes of the participants in the room. We were like, oh, I need to have it. Where can I buy it? And you were like, I don't know, we just found it somewhere. Maybe it's one single piece in the world of it, but it never was a success or it was unknown. It's crazy right.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, sometimes it's very petty. I'm really sad about some objects because they are so clever and sometimes nobody knows that there are some objects so smart also, just in a hardware store you had to discover. You had to pick some objects just around you.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, talking about daily objects, where most of us are using every day. You had a kind of necklace around your neck.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, obviously I have always with me, a strange necklace, without diamonds, without prestigious gems, but just a switch with me.
Marc Müskens:Yes, you're showing us a light switch, just a white light switch with a black button. It's with everybody who knows? This object? Who designed it?
Giovanna Castiglioni:So this is a normal light switch that you can find in every hardware store and nobody knows that was designed by Castiglione's brother in 1968. Nice job. So it's really common object. It's really a good example of industrial design, isn't it? It's mass production for every people, low price, just a switch for everyone. So you can use like a switch, or you can use it to switch off voice or on ideas or good energy. So it's just a symbolic way to keep alive a man who enjoys very much his life.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, so make sure you switch it in the right mode every time, every time. Yeah, correct, I love it. Yeah, talking about mass production, we're going to more in that or that one because we have this creative world and this entrepreneurial world, and sometimes it's not the best match, because we fantasize, can be romantic and positive about many things in the world and we might want to make it more beautiful and better, but on the other hand, there's this commercial world that we need to sometimes to bring money to. So I think we later on we will connect those with the principles, your design vision and the commercial world. I love to know more about how your follow was dealing with it, because I can imagine he came up with some crazy ideas that the commercial felt said well.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Achille A good example to share with you. So let's start with one principle that Achille said every time, objects must keep you company. So, starting from these sentences, that is super important, because everything around you are important chairs, table glasses, everything it's a part of, became a part of your life. So you have to imagine that Achille was really lucky to design a lot of objects for different companies and different functions also, and at the same time he was able to design a vacuum cleaner, a coffee machine, lamps, table chairs, also many lamps, but also dishes, glasses, a machine to drop the beer, for example, radios, many, many, many items and furniture.
Marc Müskens:How did it because it sounds really random Like why do you design a lamp, or why a beer can open and why Sometimes companies arrived to Achille and he asked him specifically a project for the company.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Sometimes he tested the object for an exhibition and after the exhibition, when the exhibition was in the end, the company said Achille, we can try to put in production this lamp because it's super functional. And we tested this lamp or this chair for the visitors in the exhibition.
Marc Müskens:Little bit designed just for the exhibition.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Sometimes yes.
Marc Müskens:Testing it over there and see if it could be.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, so sometimes, for example, for Mizzardo and Sella, designed for these two pieces, our two iconic pieces, two stools so one is a saddle for a bicycle and is the bun thing very funny, and the other one it's a tractor seat. These are two good examples, ready made and, for example, in this case, these two stools were just an experiment for an exhibition in 1957. And after 20 years it's not a company believe in this project and they put in production and are still in production. So it's, in this case, it's a very good example, because they need 20 years to realize that that there is, that there is the possibility to put a tractor seat in a at home. Very strange, but you know, you can use it, it's really comfortable. So it makes sense.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, it doesn't make sense when you're just listening and you never heard of Achille Castiglione. You're like a tractor seat, a bike seat, convert into a chair. Well, let's get into his mind. Well, it was, because this is we are touching one of his other design principles, his philosophy. Why did what? Why was he crazy about this kind of ordinary parts?
Giovanna Castiglioni:because they're not used to sit in a living room or it's a tractor, it just said what it is, of course, in this case, because he was really curious about everything and in the same time he don't want to ask two companies to spend too much money for mold to make something.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So sometimes ready made means that you have already object, very clever, very nice already exist. You have just to put together. So it's not just, but it's something that for companies it's so challenging to also to find something that it's already done, no, it's already here and you can find a connection, maybe a butterfly screw, maybe something different, to connect different elements from different functions, for example, also to your lamp, to your lamp is. You have to imagine it's a lamp designed in 1962 with a car reflector lamp, a similar road for fishing, green for fishing, electric transformer, visible and destruction, just to hold it. You don't need more. You don't need more. So you reduce to the sanctual things and in the same time it's affordable, and affordable Sometimes are quite expensive, just the bulb, but it's something that you can use it.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, so you were always looking to use daily, ordinary objects or elements and to combine that to level up the element. How can you say what was he trying to do to create more out of those elements?
Giovanna Castiglioni:or not always not always, but sometimes he tried to solve the problem also for engineer in the company. So they tried to find the right elements to combine all things. So this is why Achille loves so much the interdisciplinarity and he loves so much also to work with other people, not only alone, because you can learn by workers all the time and he said that from workers he learned a lot. So it was really amazing for Achille to find the right way to solve the problem with other people.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, he was obviously very practical in his approach. Yeah, it was driven by practicality, almost like, oh, I can use this for that, we can combine it into that. That was one of his things. Why would? Yeah, yoshio-ni-su? Yeah, I figured it out.
Giovanna Castiglioni:In this case, because my mind goes directly to a practical solution for a spoon that for all of us you have to imagine an enormous spoon with a part around, another part to hold it. That's it and Castiglioni's idea, and in Castiglioni's philosophy there are something always useful. And for Mayonnaise Spoon you need a part around just to be sure to clean the jar, but the other part flat. You are sure to clean properly the jar, Because usually in a jar your finger, for example, is not polite, I know the finger is not long enough to ride into the bottom. So until the last drop you are sure to use the spoon designed by Castiglioni in a proper way.
Giovanna Castiglioni:And it's not so expensive, it's not so complicated, the shape is so simple, it's like a smile also in this part in the end. And also you can use the flat part to spread. So in one object you have everything useful. And also, if it's affordable, well done. So with 20 euros you can have this spoon. So, product by Alessi but designed by Castiglioni's brother in 1962, it's still modern, it's still perfect.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, you just named it already. You work for Floss, alessi what else?
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, it's an opt-out Alessi Floss, breon Vega for radios and De Padova also as well for furniture, and that's it and many other companies, but nowadays the historical company who supported the foundation are this one, and we are very happy to continue to find information from the archive to share with them and vice versa.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, it's amazing that he created his own playground, his own experiment, his own lab, almost to experiment with all these objects and then by doing that he can even work with the big brands that they are interested in his philosophy and his objects. That's amazing because this is literally this creative world everybody wants to have. Every designer loves the creative freedom. That's what they want to create, what they want to build in their business, that clients don't say no but they can do, kind of whatever they want.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, also because if you're wrong or something, that means that you are in the right mood. So sometimes if you're wrong, it's really good, because you can learn by mistakes.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, it's like the example from that always reminds me of the sticky notes right Welcome to come up with a very good glue, and then it wasn't really that glue. It only took a few minutes or hours.
Giovanna Castiglioni:It's true, exactly, but there was another principle, because he was definitely not.
Marc Müskens:Well, if I know the stories, you are his dollar, but he was not ego driven. I don't see stories or any articles online about him and ego driven personality he's not. He's very humble. What was the power of being humble as a designer? Because the world needs to know what you're doing and what you're. How can you explain this power?
Giovanna Castiglioni:what's the?
Marc Müskens:quality of it being humble.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, it's not so easy to answer you. I think it's better to come to visit our foundation to understand everything through his project and through his object, because in our museum you can pry all chairs and you can have a good feeling with the object because you are in front of object. It's difficult to explain you, but I try to do my best to try to imagine that. He like a silly in our studio where the different people, with the workers, with the people who made scale models, and you have to imagine a man, a very humble man who enjoy very much his life because he'll try to solve a problem every time. So this is at the point also.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Nowadays is important also to find company who believe in your project, just because you make something, not because of the shape is nice or you are focused on marketing. It's important to solve a problem, that's it. Then, if the shape of the function is perfect and wonderful, so I can was really focused on this kind of principle because was he don't want to? Yeah, no compromise. So this is the point on functionality yeah, yeah.
Marc Müskens:So about design principles it has to be functional, otherwise he was getting mad, or how did he act?
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, usually, yeah. So functionality first and the shape after. Of course, if you like an object, this is the means that you like the shape. But if you design something really functional I think many objects really functional are also really nice, because it's the soul of an object, it's the functionality. In fact, when you have a chair, very nice, with a strange shape, and after five minutes you sit down on the chair and you realize that it's super uncomfortable, who knows? No, every people say what's wrong. Yeah, so this is the point. So I'm a very good tester Also, nowadays. I love so much to test many objects designed by designers because if I understand how to use it, that means that it's super cool and well designed.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, it has potential. When it has to go, yeah, we always do have our own interior design firm and when we select items or we advise objects, design items for our clients, we always make sure that we can trust the love and the needs. I think that's the best. Some people just want the chair and well, sometimes I do have a day like, okay, something can just be beautiful, that's it. But if you have it for the long term, it's like, okay, no, it needs to be functional and we need to love it.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, of course that one chairs too, just to look at.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, exactly, so beauty.
Marc Müskens:If those are their terms. If they completely agree on that, well, they can choose a beautiful chair just to look at. That's okay.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, that's okay, but not enough.
Marc Müskens:Not enough, not enough, no. So it's the last day.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Especially if you pay a lot. This is the other point. You know, if you pay a lot for a chair that is not super comfortable, it's very. Maybe it's not that they are beautiful and cheap. Most of the time, it's not the combination of beautiful and cheap.
Marc Müskens:It's most of the time beautiful and expensive because functional, angle, quality and beautiful. Yeah, what is it? How was he adapting to technological changes? Because it was definitely other times 50s, 60s, 70s the world was what was happening at that time.
Giovanna Castiglioni:For the technology.
Marc Müskens:Yeah for technology. So from now, we talk about a lot about, well, we dip on AI at the moment, and all this? Yeah, of course, yeah, but what was?
Giovanna Castiglioni:going on. So you have to imagine that my father, I told you he was really curious about everything, about every culture and every technologies, every materials. He was like a sponge. So you have to imagine that year by year, day by day or year by year, he continued to update himself without internet. So the unique point, the unique way, was to have a good relationship with engineers or workers, I told you. But in the same time he continued to spend time in a hardware store just to understand if there are new bulb, new material in a hardware store, or sometimes also in a food store, but especially in a hardware store. So I remember my father in a hardware store for more than one hour looking for different little things and, if you're managing, he tried to update himself also with new bulb every year.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So when he arrived from America he made a new bulb a very old bulb like a tube, for my father was a new bulb and immediately he designed a lamp with a tube, like a tube, like a snake, to be more or less the first lamp that he designed. Or a rider from America, a light bulb, sorry, from a car reflector lamp. And he designed a Toyo lamp. He found a aluminum bulb and he started to produce some lamps with this kind of bulb. So bulb was the principal component for my father and he designed around the bulb the lamp, and he experimented on different shapes but also different functions Because, again, if you need a bedside table lamp, you need a little bulb or you need a different lamp for other reasons.
Giovanna Castiglioni:You mentioned before Arch lamp. Arch lamp was, I think, the famous one designed by Castilian's brother in 1962. And at that time it was a revolutionary concept because it was the first lamp with the knob fixed on the wall from the ceiling. So you have an arch directly above the table and that's it and you have the space enough to move around the table.
Marc Müskens:You're telling the table, but most of the time they will present it with a couch and a copy table. But that's not the initial idea, right?
Giovanna Castiglioni:It's up to you. If you want to use it, it's perfect to read, of course, but the problem is when you stand up you bump with your head so directly on the lamp. So I think this is why also we open our foundation and I travel around the world to continue to share stories, because to me it's so important to explain you also the right position for object, not because it's not so clear, but just because on magazine a lot of people say, okay, I can put an arch. I saw an arch also in the bathroom, on the bath. So wonderful, why not? But at the same time, it's up to you. We are free to use object design by Castilian's brother everywhere, but I think it's important also to give an explanation sometimes.
Marc Müskens:To give it more meaning, more value, because if you know how to use it properly, why it is designed to solve what issue, it's more worth it. Right, of course, was he busy, because it sounds like storytelling almost for the old day, we call it right now we call it storytelling in marketing. Was he busy with branding or was it? He just did what?
Giovanna Castiglioni:he loves to do every day. How was he?
Marc Müskens:Because the entrepreneurial part of being this creative mind is genius. How did he connect both worlds?
Giovanna Castiglioni:So usually he loves so much to a writer at university. He was a professor for 25 years and also he arrived at university like Mary Poppins with a lot of object not designed by himself or sometimes so anonymous object in one hand. In the other hand he loves so much to bring also his project at university Just to discuss with students about principal components or material or technology or different things. So I think was one of the important professor who tried to find a feedback from a student, Sometimes critical, so he was really happy to receive also a feedback from students. So I think this is another good way also nowadays to continue to grow up in a good way To learn by other people.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, he was driving on feedback always Because he's a kind of researcher, right, he wants to know the fact. Yeah, I think it's a wonderful way to improve your designs by experimenting. It's one of the maybe one of the success secrets of famous architects and designers we had in the podcast before. They are all experimenting, involving many disciplines, many cultures, many, whatever. Who is important to give?
Giovanna Castiglioni:them opinion and to test it?
Marc Müskens:Yeah, to see what it is.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Luckily, luckily, yes, also, it's right also nowadays. I'm really happy with this.
Marc Müskens:So balancing with creativity and commercial success it reminds me of. I had a friend that a designer can and me and I ain't over. He was called and I did a lot of assignments with him because he was a creative mind, he was a creator, he was not a thing that he was not a designer.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Like an inventor. An inventor.
Marc Müskens:Almost always an inventor. He was always busy with his hands and welding was his passion. He was welding, welding, welding All with iron and well a lot. But then one day he designed a fire basket and it was a fire bucket. It was amazing design.
Marc Müskens:So I told him like hey, you should go to, you already produced a brand whatever, introduce your design, make sure you get your royalties and you can earn money with it. When he said, no, I wanted to be mass production. I'm a designer, I'm a creative. I don't want it to be mass production. He thought it was not a compliment for his design. What's your opinion on that one?
Giovanna Castiglioni:Well, I told you that the Switch is a good example of a project that is for mass production for everyone. So this is why we love that. Also, akile loves so much IKEA. You know, when you say IKEA, especially in Milan during Salone del Mobile, you have to imagine the face of people. When I say we love IKEA During the design week in April in Milan, a lot of people say, oh gosh, are you serious? Yeah, I'm serious, because if you're managing, of course we need the quality for every object, of course, but if you're managing, we can put in production an object for everyone, very functional, useful and easy to assemble it, easy to disassemble it and also when you this example was about.
Marc Müskens:that's very important nowadays in terms of sustainability, of course.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So if you repair it, if you are able to repair it, why not? So this is the Switch that we have to do nowadays. We have to look at the past and we have to be very etiquette and very focused on this kind of problem solving. So mass production, for everyone knows something. For example, Vico Magistretti said I would like to design umbrella. Umbrella is for everyone. No, he never designed an umbrella, but my father said I would like to design something for everyone. And he designed a Switch and he win with this. So it's not so expensive and you can use it also nowadays. So this is the point you can. I think also for Achille, it was important to be very, very etiquette and very clear with every project and also for a client. They are known customer. They have to understand immediately which is the project, why Achille designed an object like that or not, why there is a details or not. So I think it's really important to be absolutely clear in front of a customer nowadays.
Marc Müskens:So it all comes back again, just to make sure everybody gets it. When you're listening, Every time you see that the design principles are coming back. If people do know you as a designer, as a company, as a brand, what kind of impact you try to create, what it is that you are aiming for with your designs. It's very easy to explain your designs.
Marc Müskens:If you know how to be playful. It has to be a solution. It has to be sustainable, because I want to resample it and I want to. That's so powerful when you can communicate it about your designs, about your portfolio, about whatever you're designing nowadays. So what kind of advice do?
Marc Müskens:you have for designers that want to collaborate with brands and manufacturers, because there are a lot of big brands out there, but it seems to be hard for you, as a single unknown designer, to come up with your good product. In some ways, it's like you collected all these thousand objects of unknown designers. Probably you have a great design, a great chair, a great face, whatever, and it's solving a new thing or a new dimension. How can you start collaborating with the brands nowadays? What's your advice on that one?
Giovanna Castiglioni:So, for example, I give you an example about the last project designed by Akile was a set of pencils and fountain pen, mini chromina, and the normal classic pencil really nice, quite big, but really good because you can hold it in easy way. And this was the last project designed by Akile Imaging Akile was an architect and the last project was to sign something for all of us. So really amazing also for me, and just a few years ago I tried to find a good company who believed in this project and luckily I found a startup in Bologna in Italy. They call Ego Undesigned and they decided to put in production the last project designed by Akile, with 3D printers why not? And new technology.
Marc Müskens:And it doesn't then exist.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So my father in 2001,. He wasn't able to make it with 3D printer.
Marc Müskens:So actually that's quite cool in line of his innovative research and raising new technologies.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah. So we found all the project designed by him. He led the prototyping, so he tested all the shapes and we decided to just three shapes, three dimensions of pencils and we say, okay, we can try to put in production this pencil with 3D printer. But the point is also to choose the material. Which material? It's good and perfect.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Nowadays, probably just because I'm a geologist, I love so much graphite graphine. And in the same time, the company told us that they were able to with the 3D printer, they were able to use graphine. That it's another, it's a layer. It's not a layer, it's a wire that you can build layers by layers In three hours.
Giovanna Castiglioni:You have the last project designed by my father and by Gianfranco Cavallià in 2001. And nowadays, 20 years late, it's still available. It's not so expensive and it's really good because you can use it like a pencil and you can also remove the graphene graphine and you can use different accessories, so you can choose colors, you can use a pen. So just remove one by one an element and you can use the same object with different accessories. So this is the goal, this is the point for us to also to find a good relationship with a new company and we grew up together in the same time because they had the big responsibility to put in production the last project designed by Achille. But in the same time I was really happy to give this project to a startup young people.
Marc Müskens:But what advice can we take from this experience? If you are a designer and you are solving something or you have a view, because that's and you should have a kind of new special element involved in your design, otherwise it's just beautiful. It's just the new. Next couch in Milan you know?
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, it's true.
Marc Müskens:It can be a new material. But when it's just a new material, I'm most of the time I'm like, okay, yeah, cool material, but what else can we do with it? Let's experiment. Who's experiment?
Giovanna Castiglioni:Experiment. This is the right sentence, the right word. We have to experiment and we have to be very, very brave. This is also you have to knock the door every time If some company said no, I don't want this, I don't want to believe in it, this project, never mind. Go to another company and be brave, because the unique way is to continue to experiment with the company who are not so well known. Also, I can also tell you the truth. I don't want to go to a famous company for pencil, for example. I choose a younger startup because you can grow up together, you can experiment together and you try to find the right solution together. The point is when you are alone and you are focused on one point and that's it. And if, of course, if you ask a two-floss company Alessi company, our major company. We have a lot of famous company nowadays, but if you imagine when my father started, when he was young, he started with a company who are few people together.
Marc Müskens:They were as well.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So just few people. I think it's really nice also this concept to try to imagine to go to experiment with a company not so big. You can find the right solution together. If you go to Alessi company or Floss company, they are already on the top. Probably they don't want to listen to you. No, so I don't want to say something really bad. The point is that nowadays they arrive to the top and they in fact they continue to ask to famous designer like Philip Stark, konstantin Gerchic, michael Anastasiades, marcel Wanderst and so on. Wonderful, perfect.
Marc Müskens:Maybe they established more for a certain B or security in the brand yeah nowadays, it's like this.
Giovanna Castiglioni:At that time, they ask two young designers, achille Piaggiacomo and also Tobias Carpa, the son of Carlo Carpa, another famous architect. So you have to start together to create an amazing company, maybe together not only like an art director, but also like a good team, a part of a team of a company.
Marc Müskens:I like it. It reminds me of the quote, one of your father's quotes. It's a million years, but you gave me the English. This does not provide certainty or security. That's a cool one. Rather, it increases yeah rather increases the possibility of error. That's a cool one. Because a lot of designers have this imposter syndrome. They want to do it perfect and they are like I'm not there yet. I don't know enough. I'm, who, am I? Something like that? But this is another minus.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, in fact, he continued to say also that it's better to start there every time with humility no, if you are humble, it's better and because the experience does not risk turning into cunning. So this is really bad this is the point.
Marc Müskens:It's like the same way and that's I can imagine the frustration, because when you're young and you're just graduated from a design academy or not even on a design academy, but you're just really creative, you're kind of rebellious, you have these new visions of the world.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, when you try to knock the doors of this big. Hello, I'm here.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, and then what? And?
Giovanna Castiglioni:nobody answers. Really bad. Try again, try again, try again to find that the right company sometimes and not, for example, if you experiment on material, it's really nice to go not on the well known company but someone who are involved in another field. So combination.
Marc Müskens:Yes, All right. The last part about the beyond the term design. We're talking about the future and we're practicing on your father's work and his insights to design. How do you think he would Well envision the future of design, or what? What?
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, well, it's really Italian, but we say I can tell you the true. My father was a practical man, very pragmatic and very honest. So I think I think it's important to live day by day in a good way and you have to enjoy your life and you have to be a ticker, and I think the future it's, it's something that is super, it's a go ahead and all it's, you cannot touch it.
Marc Müskens:You're creating it.
Giovanna Castiglioni:You can't leave now, exactly, and if you are really a tick and really honest, I think it's super nice to to live in this moment, not only for the future. So this is why I, when you say the future, future vision, I say oh God, I can say nothing about my father in this direction.
Marc Müskens:But maybe then the kind of predictions or hopes that he might have had for involving the role of designers.
Giovanna Castiglioni:I think to, to continue to be curious about everything. So if we could continue to discover the word and and we start also the word, but with, with a good sense of humor also, I think it's really nice, you know, not to be serious and also this is important not to to enjoy. Enjoy every time, your, your day. I think it's really is really important is not linked to the religion, is not linked to philosophy, is just because sometimes we need the time to refresh ourself and leave day by day, and for this moment, not for the future, for the past. I can tell you the true, I have the big responsibility on my shoulder because of the past is so heavy and my father was an amazing man. But you know, it's important to keep alive the heritage and the keep alive legacy in a good way. But to me, I'm always here, not in the past.
Marc Müskens:Why I think it's a wonderful mindset, wonderful intention for, for everyday life, because today you can design your own life, your experience. And today you can worry about tomorrow, or you can think about some next steps in future, or you to create a to to to make your dreams come true, or your, your career plans. That you have to do it today and tonight.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So you bet you can better enjoy it, better Enjoy today. Yeah, yeah, it's done.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, it's waited Well right now you have created a wonderful foundation. Yeah, I can imagine people would like to visit it. It's in Milan. Where is it based? Milan, right.
Giovanna Castiglioni:We are in Milan, close to the castle, the famous castle in Milan, in the center of Milan. Luckily we are in Piazza Castello 27, but you can find all information on our website or on Instagram page, because you can follow us and you can discover more and more and you can go deeply into our archive. We have also a sausage dog who helped you, so it's not a normal museum. You can try all chairs, so you can turn on and off light, and you have just to book your visit in advance.
Marc Müskens:You're allowed to touch it.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Yeah, of course, it's a unique museum where you can touch all things.
Marc Müskens:Yes, Even when it is do not touch, I'm always like I need to touch it.
Giovanna Castiglioni:I would like to touch it. So this is why, when I opened my museum, I say, when I transformed the studio of my father into a museum, I say, okay, it's now it's allowed to touch everything. For the dog it's up to you, but for other things it's so important and we change exhibition every year so you can come again and again every year to discover more and more about Castiglione. So feel free to send us an email and we can organize an English tour or Italian tour, just in case. And that's, it Sounds great, we will prepare all the information for you.
Marc Müskens:If you are listening to the podcast right now, you can find the information in the description of the podcast. It will be institute of a terri impactcom, slash Castiglione. We will put some visuals over there for the products we talk about. More to connect with you, or LinkedIn on Instagram, whatever. So it's very easy to connect with you and to visit you in that. I would love to do that too, because I've never been in your museum. I will put it on my list and it's great talking to you.
Marc Müskens:In essence, it is having your own design principles is about well. It's more than just creating a beautiful object for spaces. It's about adding deeper meaning, intentions, solutions and values for your work. I think it's well. It not only enhances the impact and relevance of the design, but it also contributes to a more thoughtful and responsible design culture. So it's wonderful to hear that, because it's completely in line with today's world, with sustainability and all these topics are going on. We do have a lot of stuff in the world.
Marc Müskens:So we need just better stuff. We need better solutions. So well, if, for the people that are really interested, we do offer interior design business trainings. We developed a wonderful program that's called the interior impact formula and phase three of that model tree. It's all about developing and communicating your own design principles. It's one strategy to attract your ideal clients as well, because what you believe and other people believe what you believe, you are probably a really good match. You can do whatever you want. This is how you can create your creative freedom. You heard it from Giovanna today If you are on the page, you have the same intentions. You can work wonderful together with clients or other manufacturers or whatever, but there are way more advantages to it to have your own principles.
Giovanna Castiglioni:So it's a little bit part of our training.
Marc Müskens:So if you are a self-employed interior designer and you want to go to the next level, check out beyondinteriordesign. club, because this is how your design studio will be flourishing design studio. So again beyondinteriordesign. club. Giovanna, grazie mille.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Grazie mille. Thank you very much.
Marc Müskens:See you soon, yeah great to talk to you again. Thank you so much for your contribution. Keep the legacy alive when we have contributed to that via our community and our podcast.
Giovanna Castiglioni:Thank you, keep in touch, see you again. Thank you, bye.