Beyond Interior Design Podcast: Transform Your Spaces and Business

EP 032 - The Art of Valuing Your Skills and Time in Interior Design

• Institute of Interior Impact • Season 1 • Episode 31

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What if you could master the complexities of pricing, perception, and professionalism in the interior design industry? That's exactly what we unravel in this episode. We shine a spotlight on understanding your financial needs, communicating the value of your design, and the role of quality versus quantity in your pricing strategies. From tangible design elements to the intangible essence of timelessness, we dissect every facet of design value. Moreover, we share handy tools, such as the QuickAsk Activator, to catalyze effective client communication and trust. 

Ever wondered how money and interior design intertwine? Here's your answer. We discuss the importance of acknowledging your monetary needs, and how to calculate the income required to sustain your lifestyle. We examine the perception of interior design as a fleeting trend and emphasize the significance of creating designs that stand the test of time. Remember – money is a tool for bartering and negotiation, and it should be respected as such. 

Being an interior designer is not just about creativity; it's about managing a business and building trust with clients. We delve into the world of business with clear-eyed pragmatism, exploring how to understand a client's needs and offer tangible solutions. We stress the importance of valuing your expertise, and not giving it away for free. Remember the Picasso story? It's a reminder of how vital it is to appreciate your skills. Plus, we touch upon the challenge of balancing business with personal life, offering strategies to manage multiple projects and make design decisions. It's all about achieving success, both in business and life. So let's get started!

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You don't want to go to your clients to have a great talk, to really understand each other, and your client wants to continue with you and you have nothing to offer yet Because you have to get back to your office to make some calculations, etc. Etc, etc. And then days or weeks later you come up with a written price. How would that make them feel? Welcome to the Beyond the Terror Design podcast, where we unravel the mysteries and crimes of the design world. And today I've recorded a special episode on, for many of us, one of the most difficult topics in our field Money and money mindset. So let's explore how pricing and the perception of prices work in our entire design business.

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Money, the driving force behind many decisions, especially in our field. But let's build back the layers, because money isn't just currency. Money is a reflection of value. And how do we, as interior designers, determine our world, our value? The common dilemmas hourly rates, flat fees and invoicing strategies. But first off, self-awareness is crucial. Understanding our own financial needs sets the stage for determining the rates we charge.

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So have you ever considered the tangible and intangible elements of our designs' impact on a client's lives? Let's explore how a well-designed space transcends aesthetics and influences, experiences and emotions, transverses, timelessness a crucial consideration. Are we the fleeting trendy decorator or the curator of enduring spaces? Our value lies not just in what we create, but with the enduring effect it has on our client's lives. So let's explore ways to communicate this value effectively to clients. Moreover, it's not merely about the time we invest. It's about the outcomes we generate how our designs enhance a business revenue or productivity in office spaces, for example. Communicating this early and consistently to clients is paramount. And then quantity versus quality, a dilemma faced by many, will discuss how balancing these factors impacts our pricing strategies. Choosing to deliver quality, even if it meets sacrificing speed, is a vital consideration in determining our value proposition.

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And becoming an expert in a client's eyes goes beyond showcasing a portfolio. It's about fostering a deep understanding of their needs and aspirations. We'll explore strategies to foster trust and guide clients through the design journey. Implementation is the bridge between knowledge and action, so we'll dive into proven strategies and tools like the QuickAsk Activator, designed to facilitate effective client communication, leading to an honest understanding and trust. But remember, this journey isn't just about perfecting our design skills. It's about owning our ability to understand and guide our clients. We'll uncover the importance of the aspect in our profession and explore ways to continually grow in this area. Throughout this episode, we'll navigate the complexities of pricing, perception and professionalism in the design. Join us on this journey and we'll analyze each element, aiming to equip you with actionable insights and strategies. So grab your notepads and get ready to immerse yourself in the world of interior design, with pricing and perception, let's dive in.

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By the way, for the people who don't know me yet, I'm Marc Miscus, founder of the Beyond the Terror Design podcast, so let me give you a quick five seconds overview of who I am and why. Listening to me. Together with Sven van Buuren, I own the Institute of Interior Impact, with over 210,000 followers on LinkedIn. We also have a successful line in the terror design studio, doing only residential projects. But to get there where we are today, we went through some trouble, and let's call it a steep learning curve.

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I won't burden you with all the details, but by now I may be a smooth talker, but I know what to talk about. Okay, enough about me. The first part is all about money, and it is what it has to us, don't worry, don't well, it won't be dready, it will be very insightful. The second part. We'll be all about how to claim your expert status and how to raise your fees, and then we'll talk about making your service more visible for your clients. After that, I'll have something special for you. If you want to know more on this subject, all right.

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The M words, money, the midolas, euros, rubles, whatever your currency is. Do you like money? What do you have? Some judges or negativity towards money? Filty, rich Money doesn't grow on trees. Rich people are greedy. Money is the root of all evil. Money is not important. Money wants to make you happy. Isn't it weird we blame money for all of that, while it's people who use it. You know what money really is. Money is just one thing. It makes bartering into changing stuff easier. You can't go to the owner of a supermarket and say, hey, if I design your house, will you let me shop for five years? You can't do that, so they invented money. It just chops up into smaller pieces and you don't have to go to the owner of the supermarket directly and negotiate a deal. That is what money is Just that, and the standard money is neutral. It isn't a good or a bad thing and in fact, it only has value because we all say it does. Money doesn't make choices. You do. This is where it all starts, because as long as you don't see money for all it really is and respect it in a way and respect yourself in a way, it's impossible to tackle this issue.

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Now that this mindset is out of the way, we can move on to the next subject what money has to do with interior design, the money we charge our clients and how we charge it. So, what do you charge? What do you charge? Do you work with an hourly rate, a flat fee, a fixed fee? And how much is it? I hear interior designers charging 50 an hour. I hear others charge $100 an hour, some 300. But for the most of them, that's just what they wrote down towards the clients and if they really looked at the time spent on a project, it's five or 10. And then they say I can't charge more. Well, in my opinion, it's a lame excuse. Sorry to say that. So please be realistic to yourself. It's so important to be truly honest with yourself, especially on this subject.

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So to get back to the basics how much money do you actually need? Do you know that? How much do you need to make per month in order to pay your bills. What is the cost of your lifestyle and how many projects would you need to cover this? Have you ever thought about it this way? Again, how much do you need to make per month in order to pay your bills? What is the cost of your lifestyle and how many projects would you need to cover this? We all have our standard life expenses. We all have to pay our bills. Let's start there. What does your life cost?

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So, let's say, per month, what do you need? Do you know that it's a good idea to figure out this for yourself? What does my lifestyle cost me? The nice lifestyle I want to live? Don't go all the way overboard, but just a little bit better than right now. What would it cost? You don't have to know this right away, but figure it out, write it down, pick a moment in your calendar that you sit down with your bank statements and figure out what life is costing you per month in the last few months, and then add the nice things you would have wanted to be able to do. Again, don't go all the way overboard. You wanted to be within reach and you know this is a starting point. You have to know where you are in order to get where you want to be. It's just like driving car If you want to drive to Rome, you need to know where you are in order to get there. Now you know how much you need each month. You know how much you have to earn.

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So divide this number by the least amount of projects you can do per year. I said the least. So let's say you want to do 20 projects and you need 50k 50,000 a year, just to pick a number. Before you do the math. I know you were an optimistic, creative and terraristic designer, isn't that? 20 projects is a bit optimistic. I said the least. So let's calculate it with 10 projects. That means you need 50,000 divided by 10. That means you need to earn 5k per project on average. That's it. No rocket science, this is simple math. Again, if you need 50,000 to live a nice not an epic lifestyle, no, a nice lifestyle to start with, you can do at least 10 projects a year. 50,000 divided by 10, that's 5,500 per project. And can you see now, with the most negative scenario, you can still maintain your lifestyle and if you do manage to get those 20 projects, or 15, you can save the money or invest it in yourself on how to become a better, creative entrepreneur or to do something you've always dreamt of, say for retirement or an insurance to keep for a rainy day.

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But you know how most of our clients see our profession. They see it as something they consume. They see fast trends, materialism, something they buy for a few years and then trade it again. And something you buy for a few years only is worth less than something you keep for years to come. Agree, if you quickly buy a quirky, fancy, really fashionable new suitcase or handbag for your next weekend trip and you spend just a couple of euros on it, you're like, well, it's cheap, if it lasts for the weekend, it's all good.

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And then you try the piece of plastic out. Try that against a beautiful handbag or travel bag made out of beautiful, sustainable materials, handcrafted, top quality, strong stitches, some really handy pockets and sips, a bag you laugh and cherish for years. How is that? Without a profession? It's a sin. Do you want to be seen as a cheap, fancy piece of plastic or the fine quality handbag or travel bag? Do you want to be the trendy pillow thrower or do you want to add meaning to the life of your clients for a longer period of time. Exactly, our job is to explain this to our clients, and our value, the value of interior design, will rise.

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Now we have only spoken about time, how long your design lasts within the lifestyle, but what if your design has a positive impact to their lives too? What if you can make their life more fun, more valuable, more profitable, more easy? If you do hospitality, if you can explain your clients, your design helps them to have a better revenue. If you make a good design for a restaurant, people are willing to spend more money. Or they want to buy that fancy wine or we're still longer they will have that extra dessert. They will come back.

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This is something you cannot tell your clients enough, starting with the very first time they get in touch with you. Most likely that's on your website, but also when you are at the table, when you meet them in person. Repeat, repeat, repeat. This will skyrocket your export position. A client will be willing you to pay you much more, maybe five times or even 10 times more. Really, I'll show you later If you can promise a restaurant owner that he listens to you. Follow his advice. Their interior will last double the amount of years eight years instead of four because of a better layout, better materials, whatever your expertise. Maybe after four years you could tell them and ask to do a quick makeover or so. They'll be more than happy to do so, because they know that you did what you did to the revenue before the cash register. That's what it's all about.

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If you're not in hospitality but in well, let's say, senior living, then you focus on their needs. If you design offices, then you elaborate on well. A whole lot is going on about this subject now. Covid has changed the way of working, but if you can tell your client all about how to make people more productive, do a great office layout, then tell them, and especially in a way they like to receive information, in this case, with a white paper called well, post Office Survival may work. Yes, you can steal this, you can steal the name. If you want, do your thing. But just to give you an example, if you do hopes, tell your client how you bring the family closer. We call this together alone, more quality time together, more time to relax, a place from where you can take on the world. Show that you understand your clients and again, it's more important that they feel understood rather than they understand you.

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Interior has a huge impact on our lives, on our surroundings, but interior is only a means. A means to help your client achieve what he wants in life and, coincidentally, interior helps them with that. So, and still with all that in mind, we sell ourselves cheap. But please remember this Any product or service can only use two out of the next three words. Listen carefully Any product or service can only use two out of the next three words Good, cheap, fast. If you pick cheap, you either have to drop fast or good, and most of us drop fast. But that's not what your clients are looking for. They want fast as well. So it's up to you to decide. Do you want to give your client fast and good, or good and cheap and slow, or worse, cheap and fast and bad? Another reason to charge more it's the only way to give your clients what they need. But if you choose this, then you need to make sure your client knows it's good. And this brings me to the next part of this webinar. Claim your expert position and make your client see it.

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Shortness of money is a problem of the way you were working. You know that now the relationship with money and time is missing or is off, and this is also because the designer client relationship is quite transactional. Your client sort of says, well, I just want you to do this, I pay you and then you go. But I always say to my clients look, when you work with a designer, it's not transactional, it's a bit like a marriage. You're going through all sorts of things together but you both want the same objective, but it's not transactional. It's not like going when you employ an accountant or something like that, for instance, or that sort of transaction, or it's not applying a creative. You must see this. It's a different relationship. You may call this taming your clients.

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Client paid more seems to be the solution. But is your customer willing to pay? They don't pay you for the hours, they pay you for the solution. So the solution yes, how can you be their solution, so that you don't have to keep selling yourself and you get both, because your clients see you as their only option towards the goals? Well, your solution is stand out. Stand out. And what do we mean by that? Not necessarily how you look like. What I mean is don't talk about stuff. I said it before.

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Talk about what your clients life would look like after you've helped them, the future, after you have done your work? What would their life look like, what will they feel, what will they experience? And then how you can guide them to get there. You tell them how you do that, what your process is, and it may sound a little bit annoying to you, but imagine your client sees you as a creative, as a dreamer. It's fake for them, incatchable, untouchable.

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And we creatives do things on feeling and intuition. What are they looking for? The least amount of liabilities, insecurities and risks to get their end results. Meaning they want a solid plan, a solid, strong working method and if you can offer that, they will buy whatever the price. Do a certain amount, of course, but they don't care anymore whether or not you are more expensive than the other desire they invited. If you have a trustworthy plan, the other person does not. You are, in the eyes, the expert, an expert that takes them by the hand and guides them through the rough, scary times ahead, in other words, the intangible design process and building process. You map the risks, you take away their fears and anxieties. Because you are the expert. You see if you can bring your client here. If he trusts you like this. He gives you trust back, and trust means more creative freedom. More creative freedom means you get the design that you want Just by being a little bit more businessy in the beginning, by having a process that fits your client's needs. So, instead of designing interiors, spend some time designing the business side of your entire design agency and suddenly you have grown your expert status.

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If your client tells you that they want an extension to their house, or they tell you I want to open a new restaurant or give my office a makeover, what is it really about? What is the question behind the question? Why do they want this? Why? Why does it need to look like that? So, instead of what should it look like? Ask why. If you can bring your client to that insights the question behind the question and they are really looking for, then you are the only solution. You're doing something beyond the design. It's not about design skills. It's about your human skills, the cooperation with your clients, and your client already knows you understand your design skills. That's not why they invited you. They saw those skills on your website. You are invited to see if you understand them.

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So, at the table, never show your portfolio Really. Let me say it again never show your portfolio, don't talk about you. Leave that to your competition. Your portfolio won't convince them. How you can help them with what matters to them. That convinces them, the connection you have with them convinces them. And then you can offer the next step convinces them. You can hear it, you can see it. I'm excited by this. So available, so far. Great. And the next step should be a paid step, whether you work with fixed fees or an hourly rate, and even though you believe you can't give them a price upfront, we'll get to that in a moment. So keep an open mind on this.

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It may feel scary at first because getting a deal and talking about money at the table well, for most of us that's a big thing. For me it's fun. I know it's scary for Swem too, but he has found a workaround for you. You don't want to go to your clients to have a great talk, to really understand each other, and your client wants to continue with you. And you have nothing to offer yet Because you have to get back to your office to make some calculations etc. And then days or beyond as weeks later, you come up with a written price. How would that make them feel? How would it make you feel let's say it's like you're booking a weekend away with friends.

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You find a great hotel in the center of Barcelona, but you don't know how expensive it is. You find a plane that flies there on the dates you want, but you can't book because the airline gets back to you in a week with an estimate. You want to book right now, right, you want to get started to get going. You don't want to wait A week later when the prices come in. Do you still feel the same way as you when you were talking to the booking agent? No, of course not. You may have found another solution in the meantime because you couldn't wait. Now it's too late, even though the thing you already booked is crap here and it's not as fine anymore and maybe even more expensive. So always make sure you have the next step ready with a price.

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How Well, make your service visible, tangible. Start with this. Number one know your ideal client and number two know their ideal product. Start with checking with yourself who do you really like to work with or who can afford to work with you? Write down that persona. If you don't want to write down one type of person, then you can have multiple. Then look at your former projects with those types of ideal clients and see how much time you spend on those projects. See what really worked for them, when were they happiest, when were they missing something. See if you can chop your product up in a couple of bites. Maybe you can start with a sketch. That could be the next first step.

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A paid sketch, not for free, don't forget that. Well, that brings me to a short story. Actually, do you know the famous Picasso story of when he was at the market in Paris? The admirer of Picasso approached him and he asked if he could do a quick sketch on a paper napkin for her. Well, picasso politely agreed and properly created a drawing. He handed back the napkin, but not before asking for a million francs. Of course, the lady was shocked how can you ask so much? It took you five minutes to draw this. No, responded Picasso, it took me 40 years to draw this in five minutes. So I'm not saying you should ask a million for your sketch, but don't ever give away your expertise for free Entirely.

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Design is not a hobby. It's our passion, but it's also our profession. If you give a sketch away for free, all of your knowledge for free, you will immediately lose your expert position in the eyes of your client instantly. So start with the first. Next step. For your client paint and maybe a ball game of what the total would look like, and if you can give them an exact amount, that's even better. Then your client knows exactly what they're in for. But a ball game will already do. With that I mean a price range starting with a two. I said it before nobody books the plane ticket before they know what the estimate for the hotel is going to be during their stay.

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So we've talked about three important subjects. One is money mindset, and if yours is still needs a bit of attention, I encourage you to do so. It's very important in your way of fixing your issues here. We've also talked about how to become the expert in the eyes of your client, having a process of the right questions. Have your ideal client. And then we finally discussed about how to make your service visible. It makes it manageable for your client. It makes them understand. It's not about them having to understand you, but you understanding them. Listen, you don't have to be the world's best designer to do this. You need the best designer. You need to be the best designer that understands their scenario. You have to get in their heads and see it from their perspective. So make your service visible to them. It will get them to understand you. If you know exactly what to design for them, because you ask the right questions, then you really are the expert. It increases your value as a designer, it increases the lead time of your project and if you're also working with healthy price packages, wow.

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Sometimes when I get questions like what is the biggest project you've ever worked on, and then we're like do you mean the most square meters or the highest budget we could work with? Well, to answer that question residential projects over 1 million euro in terrarium design only and I can tell you those are the great opportunities to show your full potential. But do you know what will be the biggest project you will ever work on? You know that the biggest project you will ever work on it's you. So my advice to you would be take good care of yourself, maintain yourself, invest in yourself in order to grow to be the best version of you. Great side step, but let's continue. More valuable stuff is coming your way, because how do you implement all this? All right, listen, I can leave you with all these insights and your notes, but knowing is something different than doing, you know.

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Therefore, we've developed a really cool tool to implement what you've learned today, and the good news is minor changes, a big impact with this proven strategy, and I'm talking about the three pillars ASK, ask and this is something Sven and I have discovered during the time we were way too busy. This small shift in the way we ran our projects led to giant results. You may have heard me talk about this before the three pillars of ASK, and with ASK, you reveal the deeper layer, the real wishes and problems of your customer, and that's why your clients are willing to pay you more for you. I won't go into much detail about it, but it works like crazy. Clients understand us better and follow our design decisions, and it's all the stuff I talked about during this webinar. We've created an easy to implement program to guide you with this, and I wish I knew this when I started in 2008.

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This webinar is all about the N words. Let's get comfortable with it. Let's dive into it with real numbers. I would like to share our numbers, if that's okay with you, because the reason why I want to share this with you is. This is what happened over the years. In 2014, we asked 1475 for an interior design, so that's 1475. In 2001, we were up to 29,500 euros. That's 28,000 euros more not 10 times more than the beginning, but 20 times more the price for every single next project compared to where it all began. And currently we charge over 40K for the same. Only because we implemented this. It took us seven years, but you can do this faster because now you know how to do this. Great, I'll talk you through.

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Here we go. It's called the Quick Ask Activator. It helps you to raise your value, to make clients fall in love with you, to get the deal, to claim your expert position, and it saves you tons of time, energy and money. It has been tested over 1,000 people. No furniture talk, no color schemes, no layered advice. It's not a design course. This is something beyond interior design. The Quick Ask Activator helps you to get your clients to participate, to connect on a deeper level.

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I can give you a long list with all the benefits if you start working this way, but what it actually does is well. How do you say that? This is how you tame your clients? Like timming a wild animal. It guarantees that they will listen to you. Again, we're talking about money, value for money, raising your value With my coaching calls or discovery calls. When I speak with other interior designers, I still meet some people that don't know about our special training and mentoring programs. Let me tell you it's the best way to go where you want to be. If you're interested, just reach out to me. Just Google me Beyond the Terror Design or LinkedIn on our website. Just reach out to me or download any of our free stuff on our website.

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It has everything to do with how well you communicate with your clients, how well you manage your expectations and emotions, how good you are with guiding them through what they can feel as a difficult, sometimes scary, time. If you have the right processes in place, a method, you can give them comfort and security. They will see you as the entire design expert because you make them feel understood. You know what Sven always says the best interior designers are still hidden in basements and on attics in the mommy's house. Well, I can tell you we know them personally, because it's not about how good you are as a creative. It's about how you deal with your clients.

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I told you earlier about the days we had to deal with 16 projects at the same time and when you are in the middle of something, it's hard to zoom out to get clarity of what is really going on. So you're not able to change the circumstances that way. So if you want some clarity or you just want to brainstorm with me about whatever has to do with running an interior design firm, really it doesn't matter. We could talk about how to run your business while having Ketsum running your family too, about design decisions, about other choices and challenges you are facing. Just let me know. I would love to connect and remember. Together we have the power to design a world. So let's get you and your business in the right shape first. Looking forward to meet you, I've enjoyed creating this podcast episode for you through your success, and we'll see you speak each other soon. Awesome, thank you.

People on this episode

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Marc Müskens

Host
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Sven van Buuren

Co-host