Beyond Interior Design Podcast: Transform Your Spaces and Business
Welcome to the Beyond Interior Design Podcast, where we delve into more than just creating beautiful spaces – we transform the way you live and work within them. Join Marc and industry-leading guests as they explore groundbreaking shifts in interior design, sharing actionable insights and inspiring stories that will revolutionize your design approach.
Are you ready to elevate your design journey and grow your business? Tune in to discover innovative strategies, sustainable practices, and the latest in design technology that will set you apart. This podcast will make it impossible for you to design the way you did before.
Discover the world Beyond Interior Design – because the future of design starts here.
Beyond Interior Design Podcast: Transform Your Spaces and Business
EP 037 - How Can You Remain Unique And Timeless As An Interior Designer - with Victoria Taylor
In episode 37 of the Beyond Interior Design Podcast, we sit down with friend of this Podcast, Victoria Taylor. She is an experience expert, living in Scotland. Victoria shares her extensive knowledge on creating unique and timeless experiences, which are applicable to interior design as well. She emphasizes moving Beyond short-lived trends and focusing on elements that offer long-term impact and lasting appeal.
Victoria discusses the importance of authentic design and how to make your work stand out. She provides practical tips on crafting spaces that resonate deeply with clients, creating not just visually appealing interiors, but also meaningful experiences. Her approach centers on understanding clients' needs and desires, fostering connections that go beyond mere aesthetics.
It's essential to listen to what she has to say, if want to stay relevant and impactful as an interior designer. Her philosophy of blending timelessness with unique, personalized touches offers a fresh perspective that challenges conventional practices. This episode is filled with inspiration and practical advice on embedding authenticity and long-term value into your projects.
Victoria also shares her experiences working with hotels, cultural destinations, and high-end brands. Her stories and strategies will motivate you to rethink your approach and strive for excellence in every project.
Whether you're looking for inspiration, new strategies, or a deeper understanding of creating meaningful and lasting interiors, this episode with Victoria Taylor is a must-listen. Her insights on timeless design, unique interiors, luxury experience partnerships, and the essence of authentic design will enrich your professional journey and help you create spaces that truly stand out.
I'd say, like trends are a really good kind of starting point for conversations. Yeah, it's like and what? And then going back to going, how does that even relate, if it does, to that founding kind of origin of you know who we were and how? That's relevant today for the people that we want to serve to meet their unmet needs? And boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. As opposed to this is this is trending, this is pretty. We've seen this take off here for x brands, so we're going to do the same and then everyone's eventually doing the same.
Marc:It doesn't become any different and Welcome back to the Beyond Interior Design podcast. If you're here for the first time, I'm Mark Miskus, your host, and together with Sven van Buren we are the proud founders of the Beyond Interior Design Club. Here we inspire and train self-employed interior designers to balance their life and to boost their studios. And in this podcast, episode number 37 already, my special guest is Victoria Taylor, currently living and working in Scotland. She's a luxury experience partner to tourism, cultural destinations and luxury brands, making her an invaluable expert to learn from, to add the beyond layer in our field of expertise in interior design.
Marc:If you are a sponge like me, you will love this episode. Victoria partners with her clients to become the only unique category consulting clients to create experiences that create and I love this quote a long-term impact in a short-term world. She is tirelessly curious and she always challenges her clients with the question how can we raise the bar and make this better? If you want to know more about Victoria Taylor, please check out the description in the podcast for the special link. Well, here she is, victoria Taylor. Enjoy Nice to meet you again.
Victoria:It's been a while it has. It's been what? Two, maybe two years it was christmas 2022 well, so much has happened since then.
Marc:Right, it's um, it seems like five minutes, but yeah, so much has happened in that time yeah, and that's the whole reason why we have to record a new uh, a new podcast together, because you reached out to me and said I have something to share again and I was like, okay, yeah, victoria was great, we created a great podcast about experiential design, experiences, uh, about instagram, about uniqueness, a lot, of, a lot of topics. Um, one big takeaway I got was from uh, experience first and what you do second. That was a really good takeaway I got, and the whole performance is the experience. So, but things are moving fast, time is moving fast. We just came out of Corona COVID time. We wanted new, we wanted different, different, we wanted special, and, and now we are fully in this instagrammable world and you told me things are already changing yeah, I think, I think what you just said is really interesting.
Victoria:Actually and it's kind of only just dawned on me that, yeah, we are out of covid and you're you're probably right there was more of a gear towards instagram based experiences as we were coming out of the pandemic and I think we were all like, you know, children that have been contained in a sweet shop and we couldn't have any of the sweets, and then we were let out into the world, um, and I think now it's, it is different and behaviors are evolving. You know, human behavior constantly evolves and I think there is um, there's a lot more depth that's needed than um was perhaps, maybe, considered a couple of years ago, and I think, yeah, I think we're certainly seeing that now, this kind of um craving for depth from the brands that we consume, from the places that we go to, the people that we connect with, um and all of those moments that you know a brand creates for us something that's beyond the click moment, you know yeah, I like it.
Marc:As you said, we were almost like we are children in the candy shop because I think that's what was happening. So we had this. We talk a lot. Well, let's frame it first. Like a lot of designs, we want to create Instagrammable pictures because at first and the whole new generations we talked about Gen Z as well they are fully like okay, I'm here, take a picture and if it's beautiful, if it's integrable, check and further. But now you're telling me and I'm really happy with that because, as you know, with the Institute, we have form follows, meaning, and we're all talking about meaning, impacts, and that's because that's what we saw too Like there is something more we would like to experience than just this beautiful picture. So, yeah, I love to continue this discussion because we mentioned words like show, like performance, like Instagrammable, like social media proof, and now we're getting all it's one and a half year later, as our previous podcast, and it's already shifting to something for well, can we say, for the long term.
Victoria:Yeah, definitely for the long term. I mean, I think, you know, from my perspective, it's always been about the long term, the long term, I think you know all of these sort of little moments that brands create with their customers, those Instagrammable moments. You know, those social media based moments, that they're just moments and that's what they are. They're singular moments and that isn't the sum of everything. So you know, all of these conversations that we're having, the interactions that we're having with employees, the continuous interactions, that long-term thinking beyond here's something that's beautiful right now.
Victoria:It needs to be deeper if you're looking through a long-term lens, because those short, fulfilled moments that might look beautiful, they're everywhere, aren't they? Are we seeing them everywhere? Is it just me that's seeing them everywhere? Um, and I think the more we perhaps see those moments, the less differentiation there is across brands as well. You know, I was having a conversation with a gentleman last week. Um, he'd been at Milan Design Week. I know we spoke about that before yeah, I was there as well, yeah yeah, and I wasn't there myself but know it's a really interesting conversation around.
Victoria:The brands that really stood out the most to him were the brands experiences the most out there experiences. They were the kind of really thoughtful ones that thought about humans and how humans would interact in those spaces. Um, so, yeah, I think I think it's really interesting and you know it's not to say that those instagrammable moments aren't still desired to an extent by some people. You know, we're all humans and I don't think we can categorize people by demographic either. You know, I really think we are, um, living in a world that is increasingly becoming demographic loss, if I'm honest.
Marc:Yeah, demographic lost. Yeah, yeah, I just. I told you I just came back from greece, yeah, and I can tell you there were a lot of beautiful beach bars. I enjoyed those moments. I drink my mojito, but you know, mojito is not already very greasy, is it? It's not even one greasy, but the association is summer and sunshine. But all those bars, a lot of them, were like I'm on Ibiza or somewhere in Spain, I don't know. This look was everywhere with every price list. That was the other thing you could. I was in a small village with an Ibiza look and I had a Greek coffee for one euro 50. And I was in the same environment, down to the coast, and I was paying 450 for the same coffee yeah, and it was like a cut and paste, right, so yes, so copy paste.
Marc:It was where am I, yeah, where am I, and I didn't. I didn't like those places, so we really moved quickly to the more authentic, as you can call it, or or unique, or I I don't know, and this felt undiscovered, or raw, or I don't know.
Victoria:I think what you've just said is is so interesting and I think it's something that we see in so many destinations and I think it's likely as a result of this kind of trend following.
Victoria:So you know we have many conversations with industry, which is very natural, but what that results in is seeing someone do something and then trying to create our version of that thing, because it's something that is, I guess, supposedly popular, it's a trend, but actually, if we kind of bring it down to root, what you've just described is the output of that. So you've just been in Greece, you've been there. There's been very little differentiation in the places that you're in, and then, naturally, you go and seek out those more authentic back streets, which I do as well. You know you're going to seek out those back streets because they give you a much more authentic experience. You might be talking with the mother of a family with her wonderful recipes or, yeah, the bakery yeah, the, the local bakery in one small village.
Marc:That was a story and I started the question my, my, uh, six-year-old boy. He went to the toilet and you had to go upstairs on a beautiful handcrafted stairs and and you could feel the love and the attention and the craftsmanship. I was like, okay, I like this. There were some funny combinations made. It was not that design-ish and I was like, oh, this is cool, they did some kind of. You could feel the authenticity or the real person behind it.
Marc:But then there was one picture hanging with a grandma and a really big bread and my boy said he's from the food and everything has to do with bakery and pastry and whatever he was. Wow, this is it, you should see this one. So we start talking and he started a whole story about this bread that his grandma made. It was a recipe only for that small village and well, it I was on roads. It's a small island. You can drive in one hour to the other side in in in 15 minutes to the other side from from east to west, but there was already one village with its own special products then.
Victoria:Then I felt special, yeah I love that, and you can probably see me smiling here because I yeah I'm feeling that glow from you, which is that wonderful glow that people get when they feel like they've discovered something you know and you've gone to a place and you've stumbled upon something really beautiful and something you know super. I hate the word authentic because that's just how we should be.
Victoria:But what you've just described is this beautiful thing that has gradually sort of been popped in a corner, whilst we've seen this kind of visual explosion of experiences that don't necessarily go skin deep. And I think you know, right now I'm in Scotland. I moved here around five or six weeks ago. I'm staying longer. Scotland is the most wonderfully rich, diverse, culturally full of contrasts and juxtapositions, host in half an hour and where, wherever I go, there's just this really rich history. And that history isn't just in the buildings and the structures and the landscapes, the, the cuisine, it's in the people, it's in the conversations, it's in every single interaction I've had pretty much since I've got here and there's this kind of real proudness about being Scottish and this real joy about being from this destination that yeah, the proud, the proudness, yeah.
Marc:Well, again, we need to come up with another word for authentic word authentic a bit or yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I feel like if you have to say you're authentic, then you're maybe not.
Victoria:I don, yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I feel like if you have to say you're authentic, then you're maybe not. I don't, I don't know. Yeah, I feel like it's kind of a one of these words. It's a bit of a I don't know, I don't know. It's become a bit of a buzzword, but there is this real like depth of richness and joy, and you feel like you're unlocking secrets constantly. And if I could bottle the spirit of Scotland and spread it around the world, I would say like this this country is proof of the depth that is needed to create experiences.
Victoria:You know, scotland is visually beautiful. You know it definitely, it definitely got the award for beauty everywhere. But it goes beyond the visual. It's skin deep, it's conversation deep, it's history deep, it's everything you know. And I think this is what we need to be looking at. It's like, okay, well, we've got this wow, visual, but what's beyond that? Because you know, ultimately, as brands, we're all doing one thing and that is connecting with our customers, connecting with our guests. I don't like the word consumers. I think, if anyone's using the word consumers, it's kind of a one step too far removed, already All right.
Marc:So no consumers, no authenticity.
Victoria:I don't know, blacklist, you're going through a list.
Victoria:Blacklist I think the thing with the word know, the word consumers is it's purely transactional. You are going to consume something, right, but if we're looking to build and create connection, that is about building a relationship and that's beyond consumption. So I think you know, either, guests of our brand, customer, yeah, okay, customers is again slightly more transactional, butional, but I think you know, if we're looking to build a relationship, we need to start looking at the language that we're using. Um, but yeah, I think you know what we were saying there about kind of going skin deep and going down all of those layers. Ultimately, any brand, the value of that brand isn't in what we say to a customer, it's built in a customer's mind. You know, a customer builds their value, perception of our brand in their mind.
Marc:Yeah, so let's go more in depth on that one, because we're talking about holiday destinations, beautiful hospitality. Well, our community we're full of creatives interior designers, architects. We're working on our own, sometimes in duos or little small teams, and we want to be uh kind of unique. That's what we want. Uh, we heard the word uh timeless timeless designs. As you know, there is some kind of quality involved in timeless uh. So, um, we need to talk about.
Marc:Yeah, we need to talk about it, because timeless and instagrammable is not really. Uh, those are opposites yeah, kind of yeah, um yeah.
Victoria:So I think in terms of like the, the value piece, the. You know that value if I'm a customer and I go and have an experience. So let's take um like a I don't know, it could be a pop-up experience or it might be a visit into a store. It could be a visit to or it could, it could be any. What? What happened?
Marc:in me. What happened in milan? Yeah, there were a lot of venues. They were just showing the next new shiny object and I hate that. No story involved, no experience, beautifully designed maybe, but it was like, okay, how do I feel? Well, more like, okay, beautiful, that's it next. And there were halls of it and streets and warehouses and and some people nailed it with a combination of aspects yeah, that's what we need perfect thing there, mark, and what you said is you didn't feel anything, and that feeling is the word.
Victoria:You know, every brand in the world is looking to sell to a customer, every brand right, and the way we do that. There's a whole load of messy language and jargon and all this stuff in the middle that we can have as conversations in industries, which we will have as industries, but ultimately this is brand human and there's a million things in the middle between that right and they create their perception of us through a sum of all the different things that we do. So if it's just that kind of one-time wow which they build value in their mind, what's the value that they're getting from something beautiful if there's nothing else beyond that? You know it's kind of like that and what and what and what, um, so I just think you know we're we are trying to build that value. We need to go beyond those kind of this looks beautiful because, like you say, beyond is the word, by the way.
Marc:Beyond, beyond the design, it is beyond, no, it is, it is.
Victoria:There's a real value exactly, and I think I think it's really concerning as well, because obviously, you know, we're seeing a lot more of this kind of design and you see a lot of people kind of following suit, which is understandable. You know, as human beings, we like to follow the herd, we like to fit in, we like to feel like we belong. That's just natural human behavior. But when we look at the output now, you know what you've described. Just two years later, with this, I could have been sat anywhere. Imagine another 12 months where we're going to be then, yeah, and how many more experiences are going to be the same at that point.
Victoria:So, you know, I think it takes a brave brand to put themselves out there and say do you know what we're not? We're not going to be the same and we're not going to follow suit. And those are the brands that end up getting talked about. And you know, a lot of the conversations around Milan Design Week that you know I've had conversations about have been about those that did do differently and did really put humans at the center and, you know, going to that kind of timeless that you know you've just mentioned now I think it's such a beautiful word because and I always prefer it to like luxury. Really, you know, a lot of my work is in the luxury space, but that timeless um word it's. It's like beyond now. So I think a lot of the world designs for now.
Victoria:You know there's a lot of kind of this one time now get the wow, whereas if we're looking at timeless, that's long term, so it's not one time, it's potentially lifetime and it just depends on what you're looking to do. I mean, there is a place for both, of course. You know these. Are we looking to create a wow? We're looking to create an activation that serves the purpose of x, y and z. It could be a new product release, what you know, whatever that is, but then art.
Marc:You talk about art installation sometimes. Or you talk about this new restaurant and maybe they have the plan to to rebuild it in two years, because then the rush is gone and the early adapters are gone and you need for a marketing purpose, you need to rebuild it with a new concept. But at the other hand, it's like this is a strange concept to build it for this, only this, because do you really feel it or is it just this one-time experience? You talk about it and then that's it.
Victoria:You know they did a good job yeah exactly, and that's it.
Victoria:I mean, there are so many beautiful experiences that you can go and appreciate and visually they they're nice, and you might even fix something for a few minutes while you're there. And what comes? You know what comes after, and there is so much to that. That is, you know, brand culture, what happens with employees, what happens with every interaction, every, every single moment. Um, and that has to go beyond that sort of singular. This is a wow. You know, people are more savvy than that and whilst we all love looking at beautiful things I love looking at beautiful things, of course I do.
Victoria:You know, I wouldn't be in the industry that I was in if I didn't love looking at beautiful things no but if I'm looking at something beautiful and I don't feel anything, then it's likely that my relationship with you is probably going to be one time at best. It's likely that my relationship with you is probably going to be one time at best. Twice.
Victoria:You're not going to get me for lifetime and we have to give people the credit that they're due, and that's. We're all incredibly complex human beings and, you know, very often we try and simplify what a Gen Z wants or what a baby boomer wants or what a certain type of person wants, but there are no types of people. We're all people. The generational demographic thing, you know. It's been created so we can create solutions to target these people.
Marc:But in reality, yeah, how can you go in depth? How? How can you go in depth? Because how can you go in depth? Is it about, uh, questions, research. How do you come to this deeper level?
Marc:because, we are with designers. Yes, they are attracted. People are lots of people. You research can tell you. If they are on your website, portfolio page is the page they look first. They spend the most time on portfolio. You can have the most beautiful story, but that's second. They don't start reading, they just start looking for beautiful stuff and then you can open up your story. That's what the internet research is telling you.
Victoria:Yeah, I mean, I think, if you're talking about design and how people get to us, or whether you're talking about the kind of um behaviors, that obviously that they're different kinds of things, so that you know the behaviors, where we're talking about motivations, demographics, I think, really looking at the needs of human beings, so you know what. What needs are we trying to serve beyond the product that we're trying to sell? And I think if you become a brand that serves a need, so that could be belonging um warmth, happiness, whatever those those different needs are, when you're so can be trend can be trend.
Marc:By the way. Yeah, if you are really want to be a trendy designer, you well. There is a market for that. People just hunting for the latest, latest items, the next new shiny object and yeah, for sure, and I yeah, but it's not not for a long time.
Victoria:Well for sure, you have to switch every few months, almost right now, or maybe weeks this is some of the conversations that I'm I'm having is that people are struggling to kind of keep up. It feels like there's this kind of perpetual cycle of what do we do next? What do we do next?
Marc:what do?
Victoria:we do next, as opposed to who are we at the very root of who we are like? Really digging into the archives. Right, you know who are we as a brand. What was it we originally felt when we founded this brand? Who were we? What was it we were looking to do? You know what was it we were looking to create, serve, provide. You know what is that origin?
Victoria:And then taking that into the context of today and tomorrow and five years and 10 years, and making sure that everything that we do is so consistent to that origin, but also through a lens where we can make relevancy with what's happening today, and I think that's really important as opposed to how do we keep up with what's happening today, and I think that's really important as opposed to how do we keep up with what's going on externally. It's very different to innovate from within than it is to innovate from looking outside, externally, and I think there is a lot of sort of looking outward rather than focusing inward and when you really do the work internally and you look at the roots of who you are, who your people are, and when I say digging into the archives, I really mean like digging into those archives, you know what is the history, what's the past history, what are all these moments that?
Marc:have you actually the same? You do the same for your clients, right? That's what what we're doing. Why? Why do you want this new interior design? And they say, yeah, well, you can come, they can. If you don't talk about that, they say, well, the neighbors did an extension and I liked it so much, I want that too. That's an option. Or this is something beautiful. I saw in the magazines or when I was on my vacation. I saw I want this in my home and I said, why?
Victoria:do you want?
Marc:that and again in the end we have a, we have a method that's called seven times. Why? Yeah, then you yeah, you come on some kind of level and in the end it's all about I want to spend more time with my family. I don't want to tidy up my house, I don't want to be frustrated about this maintenance in my house and because there is something beyond interior design, all the other activities and feelings and way more valuable stuff in life than stuff yeah they want to experience that more.
Marc:These relationships, connections, moments, happiness, this all this happy liquids. I always talk about the waving curtains. It's drugs for me. I think I can just watch a video with waving curtains and I'm getting happy. But there is something Everybody has this kind of thing wired in your brain. If you create that, then you know it's not for a moment. This is this long-lasting experience and value.
Victoria:A hundred percent. And you, you know I love what you just said there about. It's about family in the instance of creating, creating a home, um, but but yeah, we're. You know we're all built with our innate desires, needs, wants. You know we have all those sort of basic needs, going back to sort of the college days, many, many, many years ago, where you know we studied like models of behavior, maslow's hierarchy and all of that which you know some people will say are completely outdated, and but that you know we have all these needs as as human beings and when we're really serving human need, like you've just said. You know, a house isn't about creating just a beautiful house, it's about what does that facilitate? And it's those same questions that we can be asking about our experiences. You know what do these experiences facilitate for the people that we're serving? You know, do they facilitate.
Marc:Facilitation I think that's a really cool word because you, even with when you're living in your home or you're working in your own restaurant, you have to. There are so many choices to make unconsciously, consciously, and if you can take those choices away, you have literally space in your room, in your head, in your mind, in your heart, for other stuff Completely, yeah, completely.
Marc:I love that. It can be a stupid thing about every morning the same same plate in the drawer, but it's the down drawer. You can just take one drawer up and it's more easy to pick it out. Or it's more logical to serve your breakfast for your family because you have all some nagging frustration somewhere and there are plenty of those when you never think consciously about your environment.
Marc:And I think a lot of interior designers and listeners today are agreeing with me on that one. It's yes, it's beautiful. Let just be beautiful. Just that's a necessity. It has to be beautiful and it's perfection or imperfection doesn't matter, but there needs to be some beauty in it that you value so much, with a meaning, that it is okay, although it can be so ugly, but you value so much, with a meaning, that it is okay, although it can be so ugly, but there is so much meaning in that I really like ugly stuff. Sometimes it's like there is something going on there with ugly.
Victoria:Oh great. Maybe that kind of liking, ugly stuff is because we're so used to now seeing curated, perfect that actually in their true kind of raw form are quite desirable. They're quite a luxury because, you know, there's this kind of modernization across all of these places and spaces that are kind of like it's it's all in a an x-way, because this is the trend right now or this is what someone's saying, and then you stumble upon these kind of pieces that you just think, oh wow, you know this is so beautiful because it's raw and it feels different and it feels different definitely like returning to the old rather than looking at the new, um, and that that feels quite beautiful.
Victoria:And I think you know when we relate again and relate that to experiences, it's that kind of down to the craft, the very core and the essence, rather than this. I kind of split them into two areas. I say we've got like spectacle based experiences and then we've got these kind of surface based experiences that have all of these kind of different elements under it. And you know, spectacle based experiences and then substance what do you?
Victoria:mean with spectacle. So spectacle is kind of your um, sort of you know, your wow, this is a wow, basic experience. It's a spectacle, but there's not much beyond that. They're really important as well, by the way. It's really important to have those kinds of experiences, but if it's not grounded with any other substance, you know, I would say, if you're a brand or somebody looking to create experiences, your core needs to lie in something that's substance-based. Spectacle is fine, but I think there's a lot of this kind of excuse me spectacle based visual trend and and that's lovely, but what's at the core? Because it's the core that speaks to the soul of people, there has to be something that speaks to the soul and it's the substance that speaks to the soul. And that's where you start creating long term, timeless, the relationship beyond this kind of spectacle. Wow, one time. As I say, they both have their place, but what are we doing here if we're kind of constantly on this spectacle side of things?
Marc:yeah. So I can imagine if you are a designer, you have your own, uh, your own design studio. You need, you want to be, everybody wants. There's a kind of selfish thing with creatives. They want to do what they like, but of course they have. They want to create the best thing for the clients. But there is something. Well, again, your origin, feeling or stuff inside you want to get out. That's your creation mode. It's the best when you are in your own unique flow creation mode. It's the best when you are in your own unique flow and I think it's very worth worthy to pick this kind of route or way for your, for your studio right now to make a really a statement. I do. I do see it more and more coming up.
Marc:People are literally saying like I I always wanted to say I do like trends because they tell a lot about society and humanity. Where are we heading? And that's what I saw a lot of crazy stuff happening in Milan where, like oh, is this what's going on? I don't go in depth on this one in this podcast, but there was some real cool stuff going on for discussion because you can literally have two parties. It's like versus each other. This time it was technology, mother nature. There is something going on right now with that. In my there was my, my trend watching opinion in milan that you need to pick a site right now that fits you really well, to be kind of unique or to to that the people do see you, or something like that.
Marc:It's like I, if you tell them I hate trends, you will definitely get some, attract some people that have the same opinion, like oh yeah, I hate trends too. I all, almost my whole year. I like these golden peps in my kitchen. Can I have them? If they are trendy or not, just design it for them. We we had some clients like that over the years. We call it living on your own terms and they are attracted to that because those are my terms. I like that. I don't care what's trendy, or I do hope it's not trendy right now. Some people say that they want that because they know from the inside out they have a kind of meaning association attached to that and they that will last a long time, a lifetime yeah, and I think what you've just described there is, you know, motivations and behaviors.
Victoria:There'll be some people that want to go with, particularly in your industry. You know, I'm not, I'm not in your industry like you are um, but the you know there will be people that do buy because of trends within interiors. I, you know, I guess, but I guess I'm talking more on like a brand level. I think I too I don't hate trends, by the way, I um enjoy trends, I enjoy reading them, I enjoy studying them, researching them, but then looking at behaviors, because that's it yeah, looking at trends don't stop there.
Marc:Yeah, don't stop there and like just acting. Okay, copy paste, that's what's going on behind beyond this trends?
Victoria:yeah, it's kind of I'd say like trends are a really good kind of starting point for conversations um yeah it's like and what.
Victoria:And then going back to going, how does that even relate, if it does, to that founding kind of origin of you know who we were and how? That's relevant today for the people that we want to serve to meet their unmet needs? And boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. As opposed to, this is trending, this is pretty. We've seen this take off here for X brand, so we're going to do the same and then everyone's eventually doing the same. It doesn't become any different. And boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Victoria:And then we've got your case in Greece, which perfectly illustrates it, or my case in Scotland, which shows what it's like to be in a destination that is so beautifully authentic in who it is and that's organic. You know, scotland's beauty is so organic. It's not had to kind of orchestrate. You can't orchestrate the joy that the people have here. You can't orchestrate the kindness, the care, the compassion, the passion for the country, tourism, for visitors. I've been made to feel so unbelievably welcome and so invited and cared for and that there's so much in that.
Victoria:And it's all of those sums of all of those interactions that form my opinion on Scotland. And you know, when I came here I thought it might be for a few months. I'm working on a couple of really wonderful projects up here right now, um, and I, you know, I thought it might be for a couple of months but having spent time here, I'm like, oh my, I could live here. And that's the power of that real, authentic trueness that goes deep and that's on a destination level. You know that isn't just in one hotel or one distillery or one retail outlet, that's throughout the entire destination. And I think when we can look at that collectively and go, you know like who really are we, and I actually think it's quite rare In fact I think it's very rare Like Scotland has something very magical rooted so deep, and I think you know if any country in the world could look to somewhere for a great example of why it's important for that to be culture deep yeah, you said, you said trueness.
Marc:That's I like that word, trueness, or real, real, richness we got. Real is real, is it? Maybe that's the better words for authenticity. Real, you know, we, we, we feel when something is fake, when it's staged. When it's staged, when it's a show, when it's a performance, you are walking in a kind of decor. The same if you talk about interior designs or those venues in Milan. Sometimes it's like, okay, this is staged really well. If you take a picture, I can imagine I am in a building like that and you can fool me with only that picture. I don't know where I am. Fool me with only that picture.
Marc:I don't know where I am, but on the other hand, there were some installation storytelling stuff going on there with light effects and sounds. Well, for me, I could almost see the chair breathing to me like it was a living thing. You can love something and you have this, all this combination of emotions together and I literally saw people crying at light installations. And if you, if you just think, see really logical, you saw strings with LED lights all technology involves but people were crying in a mirrored room with electronics and I was like what, what is happening here that you can create this? Why is it so impactful? Because if you just put on the lights, switch the light on, it's gone yeah, I mean could you see, emotional people see themselves in the mirrors as well.
Victoria:Is that?
Marc:maybe that well that? No, that was not really well. No, I don't. I don't know what happened there. That's so magical. You wanted to go back. I could imagine if I have been on those places. You had a forest with mirrors, just trees coming out of a mirror floor, mirror walls, mirror ceiling, so you never saw the tree from all directions at the same time. So that was funny. You have a three-dimensional matrix. What's going on it? Nature is it? Where am I? But I could feel the healing power of it. That if I could spend every day 10 minutes in this kind of magical forest, it would heal me. It will do something on a deeper level and that's.
Victoria:That's crazy, yeah and I think that's that's beautiful. You know, it sounds like it was a really impactful experience for you and you know it's probably highly likely that whoever has been the experienced designer behind that have they've not gone out to say let's put a tree and this, and that they've thought about how they move people and they've started with meaning and feeling. Most likely, you know, when we map out our experiences against meaning and needs, as opposed to how can we sell our product, but when we map it out against meaning and then we create the pits and the peaks and the moments that contrast and all those beautiful juxtaposition positions throughout an experience, the different variations of voice throughout an experience that take us total what you've just said.
Victoria:You almost can't describe it. You know there are those experiences generally have thought at the center of them and it's, you know, it's really grounded in what are we looking to create for humans and how do we map that out against our design.
Marc:You know, as opposed to we're going to design this because it looks beautiful fine yeah did it well one of the reasons we started the institute of ontario impact in the beyond the 30 Ontario Design Club was that they teach you to create beautiful stuff, or good stuff, solution-based or beautifully aesthetic. But it was never good enough for me. I wanted to add another level to it. I didn't know why at that time, because I was 20. And now it all came together. And now at the Institute we teach our students, our members, methods to go really deep with asking the right questions with the client and combining your profession, not like, hey, look at my next new design version, do you like it or do you like it? Do you hate it? Tell me more. No, the whole process is co-creation.
Marc:And then if I saw you doing with your head, with your hands up and down, like this kind of roller coaster experience, but this you can create these emotions and those emotions are really valuable to get to the core of the real issue, the real why, why they want a new interior design, or but again, to attach the value of all these emotions to what they finally will experience in the end result. I think that's so cool. If you this is you're kind of explaining the theory, I guess, behind what we're doing, why it works? Because we are, we really orchestra. It's an orchestra to go from really rational solution base to another session with the client. That goes really deep to the bigger why. And it can get really emotional if you talk about associations and strange memories about childhood or family members or whatever yeah, for sure, and this is a lot of the crux of the work in experience.
Victoria:You know we're crafting experience and particularly, you know I work a lot with the luxury sector and you're looking at those kind of behaviors and, yes, we can't categorize everybody in the same way and what you know, what you've talked about, is serving a particular family, so you are really delving deep into those very personalized moments. But, you know, really looking at who we are serving and looking at what we are facilitating, you know you could do the same for offices and restaurants.
Victoria:It's the same, same method, same yeah and I think you know this kind of outdated version of.
Victoria:I'm going to use luxury as a great example here but this kind of outdated version of a luxury experience is a VIP room with a higher version of a lower level of experience, or you know whatever that is yeah, it's too flat oh my gosh, it's just so outdated and it's so beyond where humans are, you know, and if we look at what's actually happening in tourism as well right now, a part of that is that people are and probably this brings us a bit full circle to the beginning of the conversation, when you were talking about this kind of almost artificialness everything has kind of, you know, gone in a similar direction.
Victoria:But I think we're definitely seeing this kind of craving for knowledge, like knowledge is a really big thing. So customers don't necessarily just want to buy from you, they want to learn about the thing. They want to learn about your skill, your craft, your people, how you bring things together, which is exactly what you've just described there in what you do. But you know what, what is the skill behind that, what is the history and why did it happen in that way and what?
Victoria:would happen if it was in this way, and how would it be different if this was included?
Marc:Because that and they come up. Yeah, they come up with the questions. That's the beauty of it. If you hang this picture in this Greek restaurant from the bread and this grandma, people will ask, they open up the conversation and then the story starts. So if you're working, if you go creation and they see you, how you do it, how, the, how the things work on the screen, how the how, how stories combine, on one moment they are like this feels magical and they want to know the how and the why and they get more and more involved and there's the magic happening exactly and that you know.
Victoria:you've just described that beautifully and I think you know sometimes we talk about this kind of co-creation and it's forced co-creation to an extent Brand here, customer here, they both need to play a part in the story. But it's actually how are we creating the co-creation? So how are we encouraging what you've just described?
Marc:you need a starting. You need, in my, you need a starting point and then it's going naturally.
Victoria:You don't need any more, just a starting exactly, but that starting point is created through creating curiosity and it's like okay, so now we need to look at our humans that we're looking to serve. How are we going to create curiosity in these humans? What do we need to do to enable them to ask the questions that are going to lead to what we need it to lead to, to create the next part of the experience. You know, I mean a few years ago, during the pandemic, I did this wonderful, wonderful a course is probably the wrong word for it and I've never really been someone to do courses. It's just never been been my kind of thing.
Victoria:But I was there one day and I was looking online and this thing came up and it was called bonfire with soul and it said looking for optimistic rebels and misfits, and I was like this is great, this really speaks to me. And I remember ringing my friend Victoria at the time and said, victoria, there's this thing and I think we need to do it and I think it's just going to be amazing. And you know it's a gentleman called Duke Stump and he was this kind of just amazing person. He'd been the CMO for Nike and Patagonia and, like Lululemon, and you know, he just an incredible guy and this course was set around 12 principles, but the 12 principles, principles. It wasn't kind of dictative. So, although you had these modules that you followed, it was about getting you to open your brain up to questions and to that curiosity and to discovery, and it was one of the most brilliant. I can feel goosebumps on my arm now it was one of the most brilliant I can feel goosebumps on my arm now.
Victoria:It was one of these most brilliant empowering experiences, considering it was online as well, you know, because online can be quite it feels a bit barrier-based. Honestly, one of the most profound, brilliant experiences I have had and the stories that were shared, the content that was shared like the curiosity and the stories that were shared, the content that was shared the like, the curiosity and the inquisitiveness that it created changed my life like it genuinely changed my life, yeah, and that's what we want.
Marc:That's what we want to change to, to to improve somebody's life. With what?
Victoria:whatever you're doing, every, with every craftsmanship or service, actually, in the end, we try to improve the other person's life exactly because we're all the sum of all of our experiences and you know the knowledge that I I gained in myself and through my own practices and how I operate and I impart that to my clients. Now, you know, and I'm, I'm a very kind of, I kind of sit in the middle mark. So I am commercial and creative. So I, you know, everything I'm doing with my creative lens is for commercial objective. Of course it is because we're in business yeah understanding how that really relates to humans.
Victoria:and you know you can take all the demographics aside, whether someone is a baby boomer, gen z. However, we want to categorize people and if we actually look at humans and kind of go, well, what fundamentally makes us who we are? All of us, we're all kind of curious. We all like to feel good, we all like love, we all feel hopeless, we all feel if we look at all those things, they're all feelings, so it's about how we get to the crux of those feelings. As opposed to, this demographic will want this, this demographic will want this. So I think if we can empower those things in humans and curiosity is a brilliant one you know, how can we make them curious so that we're not just saying here's our experience, we'll do this bit, you do this bit, let's take part and there's a whole load of experience that goes into that.
Victoria:Curiosity creation, um, and, as I said, variation on voice, all the all of the different things that we're serving, um, but that's where the depth is. So, when you know, I said we have to go deep, it isn't just about saying, okay, we've got a brand and this is our brand story and this is a human and our story connects with their story. No, it doesn't, like we need to connect very deeply with the core of, like who people are if we want to go, like, go long time beyond one time, you know.
Marc:So, yeah, putting in the work up from and continuously, and making it culture-wide yeah, so in terms of the of the creatives you really have to think about, are you designing for one time or for a lifetime? There's not not really something in between, right, is it? I mean?
Victoria:I mean, yeah, of course you know anybody could have any length of relationship with a brand that you know. I'm sure you've had relationships with a brand that have maybe lasted for a certain period of your life because they yeah, ok, but that's a talk about the systems of the brand, but it's a, it's a kind of theory.
Marc:When you start, in our case, designing, you can. You can tell them hey, I'm going to design something that will grow with your lifestyle or with your firm, or with your, with your office, whatever.
Victoria:Or you can just choose to make something incredible for that moment and let's see what you like next year 100, and I think this is again where a lot of revenue is lost, because it's this how we reinvent and reinvent and reinvent and reinvention is really important.
Victoria:But, it's like you've done that work and you've delved into the depths. You can become a legacy brand who speaks to a customer at every moment throughout their lives, at every moment throughout their lives. So long as the relationship and the workers put in to make them feel if they, if they come to your brand not just because they can buy a product, but because they know that if I interact with x brand, I am going to feel belonging, that's great. That makes me feel great. I'm going to go back because, yeah, yeah, I can go and buy whiskey, I can go and buy whatever it is I'm buying, but I feel belonging. That brand has me because it's appealing to my innate human needs, as opposed to just my consumption needs.
Marc:They understand you. That's how it feels.
Victoria:So when we're talking about their story, your story really happy to talk about storytelling, I think it's absolutely central. But your story doesn't just meet their story without really delving into behavior and who humans are Like. Just because you tell your story doesn't mean it's going to connect.
Marc:I think, if I just zoom out to our conversation right now, some great takeaways you got me. You have to design some tipping points or some points that make them really curious. Don't create them completely. Something is just a starting point for something. If you have some hooks in your company, in your process, in your relationship with your client or contact moments that will create these hooks, to create more curiosity, you can go every time on that moment you can go more in depth. That's the kind of thing I can relate really well to an interior design business or architect firm. If you do that, you could do it on different levels. It's literally about your expertise, your knowledge, your skills, but it can also be just somewhere with a Christmas card or another contact moment. So it can be in your head, can be in your heart. If you touch all those levels and you make them really curious about to stay connected, and I think you can create a really cool experience.
Victoria:yeah, yeah, and I think that that continuous connection, without it being, you know, too, too much yeah, you don't know?
Marc:no, it has to be by the browser, yeah but it's it's that very appropriate understanding.
Victoria:You know, there's a lot of innovation departments within organizations, which I think is really, really important, but I really think we need more human departments, and I don't mean HR departments, I mean human departments. Because if we strip away everything and you know for anyone listening to this who is in business there are two things that exist all over the world brands and customers. It's connecting them together. If we strip away everything in the middle, it's about connecting them together, them together. And we cannot possibly connect with every human with our brand or every desired human that we categorize, without really digging into behaviors, motivations, needs. What can we do for them to serve their needs? So, in turn and eventually, and with trust and relationship and longevity, it serves our objectives and it's a long way around. But that's the craft, that's the work, that's the depth of creating something that lasts beyond one time and creates lifetime.
Marc:Wow, hallelujah, what a great ending of this podcast. I love it. I love it. This is one of my all. I just started the business because I love the depth and I love interior design and if you can create this combination, you can add so many levels to your professionalism and life. If you use this, if you are curious to this kind of levels because that's it you need to be curious, you need to find out, try and test it out, to go on another level than you normally do by just servicing the next chair to them, or the couch or the wallpaper. Dare them to go on another level and see what's happening, how valuable, how purposeful, meaningful your life will be, and their life, because it's it's you're adding so much value to everybody in the world and the um, the, the, the interior design world, our profession.
Marc:Yeah, thank you, uh victoria yeah, I love to speak, to talk to you again about this and, uh, well, if there's uh, if we're moving so fast, uh, well then it could be that you were in six months you're back again. If we follow this trend with uh, it's a grabbable stuff. Well, we, we keep in touch. Yeah, I'm happy to see and to hear from you. So reach out to me if you have new insights and new stuff that's going on in the world that we can, because we are the creators, we are the inventors, we are all these people that are listening right now and in our community. They they are the persons who can create stuff. They need the ideas and inspiration to take humanity to another level and to find out if that's what we want. It's one big experiment here.
Victoria:Thanks a lot. Thank you, Mark. Thanks for having me. It's nice to see you.
Marc:Keep up the good work. Bye, bye.
