Beyond Interior Design Podcast: Transform Your Spaces and Business
Welcome to the Beyond Interior Design Podcast, where we delve into more than just creating beautiful spaces – we transform the way you live and work within them. Join Marc and industry-leading guests as they explore groundbreaking shifts in interior design, sharing actionable insights and inspiring stories that will revolutionize your design approach.
Are you ready to elevate your design journey and grow your business? Tune in to discover innovative strategies, sustainable practices, and the latest in design technology that will set you apart. This podcast will make it impossible for you to design the way you did before.
Discover the world Beyond Interior Design – because the future of design starts here.
Beyond Interior Design Podcast: Transform Your Spaces and Business
EP 038 - How To Take Your Interior Designs Beyond - with Monique des Bouvrie
In this enriching episode of Beyond Interior Design, host Marc Müskens sits down with the renowned Monique des Bouvrie. Monique, an influential figure in the Dutch interior design world, continues the legacy of her late husband, Jan des Bouvrie, who revolutionized Dutch interiors with his innovative white and symmetrical designs.
Join us as Monique shares her journey, insights, and the philosophy behind their transformative approach to interior design. Discover how they brought light and positivity into homes and created spaces that evoke deep emotions and wonder.
In this episode, you'll learn about:
- The origins of Monique and Jan's design philosophy.
- The power of light and white in transforming spaces.
- The importance of adding personal and emotional layers to your designs.
- Monique’s tips for this generation of interior designers and the value of being inspired by your surroundings.
- The balance between timeless design and current trends.
Monique also shares heartfelt stories about working with Jan and how their dynamic partnership influenced the design world. Whether you're an interior designer looking for fresh insights or simply a lover of beautiful spaces, this episode is brimming with inspiration and practical advice to elevate your designs.
Tune in and discover how to create interiors that not only look stunning but also feel deeply personal and inviting. Get ready to take your interior designs beyond the ordinary!
It's Saturday evening. I'm already in my pajamas, balls of paprika chips already, glasses filled with cola on the table and, together with my parents and little brother, I'm all set my weekly highlight. Tvbom Magazine, a Dutch television show all about interior design. What is he going to design and create today? And there he grabs his black marker and begins to sketch in his white book. I'm so eager to see what this will look like in reality, and the construction team gets started right away, and in the meantime, they go shopping looking for the right items. So it will turn out exactly like his design Marvelous. I can hardly wait for the next week episode.
Marc Müskens:The remarkable man I'm talking about passed away, unfortunately, in 2020, at the age of 78. I'm referring to Jan de Beauvry, the titan in the Dutch interior design world and my childhood hero in the Dutch interior design world and my childhood hero. Together with his wife, monique de Beauvry, they had a beautiful dynamic, creating a real movement that shaped today's design industry. Now she's continuing the legacy and taking it to a new level, beyond interior design. Get inspired by our insightful conversation and discover how to add this magical beyond layer to your own interior design studio. Here she is, monique de Boeufy. Enjoy. Well, hi Monique. Welcome in the Beyond the Territory Sign podcast, hi Mark nice to be in your podcast.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, well, thanks, the honor is completely mine because Jan, your deceased husband, and you inspired me in so many ways on a very early age. I was watching a television show. When I was around 10 years old, I was watching TV Bone Magazine, your program, on the couch with my parents and every week I was looking forward to Saturday evening to see this show. So it really inspired me to become an interior designer. Wonderful, yeah. And then you know well, we already discussed that when I was visiting you in your well, let's call it the candy store for interior designers, your showroom, your shop, your studio. But then, a few years later, we met on a television show. It was in 2015. Yeah, you remember that one. Yes, it was silent.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was as you remember yes, and then I was like, hey, who's that? You remember? Hey, monique, I was a stylist. Yeah, I was a jury member, yes, and then I was like, hey, who's that jury member? Hey, monique, there is Monique. I had the. Well, I didn't have the privilege and I never took the chance to meet Jan in person, and actually it's a shame. I was thinking about it. Why did that never happen? If you have this kind of idol and role model, why didn't do the chat so for the listeners? If you are listening right now and you do have a kind of childhood hero that's that gave you the part of interior design or something please make sure you create your own opportunity to meet him definitely, so that's cool but well, we met in the tv show.
Marc Müskens:Uh, then I uh well, you uh kind of eliminated me in that board there was, there was a show, I had to go home, yeah, but it's a well, things will probably go in the right direction for you. I trust. I do trust this. And now look at where we are right now in the podcast. We're the worldwide community of 226,000 people worldwide. Oh, wonderful, inspiring other colleagues. I'm so grateful to have you in the show today because I want to discuss a lot definitely about beyond interior design, because this is the level, it's our religion for me, it's very important to inspire people and also to get inspired from other persons yeah, great.
Marc Müskens:Well, I know you started on education. There are two schools named after the Jan de Bovry Academy, right? Yeah, the Jan de Bovry Academy after the Jan de Bovry Academy, right.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah, the Jan de Bovry Academy and the Jan de Bovry College.
Marc Müskens:Yes, yeah Well, I want to discuss a few things with you. First I would like to sketch a little bit of background from who you are and who Jan de Bovry was is his legacy. Then I would like to switch to talk about the vision of interior design and probably the design world in general, and then definitely the last part, as I told you already, beyond interior design, how to add this well, kind of magical layer to the interior designs to make more impact. So let's start quickly to outline the history and background for the listeners. Who was Jan and what does he mean for the interior design world?
Monique des Bouvrie:Jan was a person who changed interior design because at that time I was just born, I think. At that time I was just born, I think he was asked to make everything which was brown white, so to put the light into a room. He started with his own room when he was a kid to make everything white, so even his radio. Everything was painted white, so he put the lights into houses. That's what he did. So he changed the Beatles, changed in earlier days the music and he changed interior. So it's important what kind of movement are you doing? And so people will remember him as the white maker. But he puts the light into space.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, wonderful If I would describe his signature. Everybody thinks about white and symmetry. Those are the words I remembered. Like his signature, everybody thinks about white and symmetry. Those are the words I remembered like his signature.
Monique des Bouvrie:Just oh everything white and symmetry yeah, but it has more to do with um positiveness, um, because, um, why do people always think that white is cold? But for his opinion, it had more to do with with the light, because the dark room is makes you also feel a little bit more darker, more emotional, and white brightens up everything yeah, so let's call it bright instead of light really yeah, yeah yeah, wonderful, because we came in those days, the interior designs were really brown and heavy woods and then became this, literally this.
Marc Müskens:Like you see, you can call it a movement, because everybody was like what's going on here? What is this? They were never conscious about, maybe about well, they just lived their life. They didn't pay attention to the house. Maybe it was good quality, or maybe it has some historical history or craftsmanship to shape an environment that is bright, that can brighten up your life.
Monique des Bouvrie:Exactly, and that's at that time people weren't thinking about that. No, so you see, because I always ask somebody what makes you happy, because I I don't care if somebody wants to have purple, red, yellow, I really don't care, but for me it's very important to create something um, maybe we are now 10 steps ahead to create something which brightens up your life yeah, well, in my opinion, because, uh, at one moment you really work together and uh well, you came as well in the TV shows and was like, hey, this is his wife, this is Monique de Beauvry.
Marc Müskens:For me you were having the core in his life, or this kind of wow factors, or this artworks or this. In my opinion, you were, when it came to, really interesting, you know.
Monique des Bouvrie:Jan and I, we were a very good team. So he because I didn't go to school for this, what I'm doing he was my best teacher. I learned everything from him. And because I put myself open, I wanted to learn, I wanted to interior and creation was in my mind the whole time.
Marc Müskens:Your DNA.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah, it made me happy. So we were a very good team and I added the color and maybe the things which were a little bit over the top, which I loved very much, and we quarreled, we had a lot of arguments about this also, but finally we had a beautiful creation together. We made this beautiful creation together.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, beautiful, dynamic, and I do truly believe that these arguments you both had.
Monique des Bouvrie:I love to hear that it's a lot.
Marc Müskens:That's valuable right.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah, it's very valuable.
Marc Müskens:What happens if you don't have arguments together and you both say yes, no?
Monique des Bouvrie:because you want to reach out to something perfect. Perfect is nothing, because I don't like perfect things, but you want to reach out everything to this perfect creation, and we had wonderful arguments together.
Marc Müskens:Great, yeah. Well, I think this makes it really clear that you are raising the bar of interior design. Together with this beautiful dynamic, you both had, uh, influencing the perspective on interior design, on spaces, had the art, art, piecements, the, the statements you you got. So that's uh, yeah, you made people conscious about the impact of interior design. So that's why you're here today in the podcast. And if I look back in my life, you had first I was just attracted to this beautiful new thing, what was going on and when he was designing in his sketchbook and all these kind of elements, and he was always making drawings in his sketchbook and all these kind of elements.
Marc Müskens:He made beautiful drawings. He was always making drawings.
Monique des Bouvrie:He smoked small cigars. He had always a cigar box with him and he had a DuPont pen and he made beautiful drawings everywhere.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, great, yeah, that's what I remember. And in some way, if we look now to the beyond levels, I know why it was so interesting because it was definitely more than the next new shiny object. It had something to do with it, because it could look commercial or we want something new and fresh, that's the only idea. But it was always. There was something behind this. Yes, always.
Monique des Bouvrie:At first it was something which came out from the head and from the heart, and then you go on to the commercial thing yeah, yeah, that's how it's, yeah, of course, always, always, start with this and with this yeah, yeah, Sometimes they call us me and Sven, my business associate.
Marc Müskens:They call us the. Why, guys? Because we're always like why does it look like that?
Monique des Bouvrie:It's like okay beautiful picture.
Marc Müskens:You can give an award to the most beautiful design because it looks good.
Monique des Bouvrie:Use the right techniques, don't ask every time why it's always also good to let right techniques. Don't ask every time why it's always also good to let it be. Don't ask why. Just feel it, just sense it.
Marc Müskens:It could be enough sometimes, yeah, yeah. Or it is enough sometimes, yeah, yes, exactly. But I know. But maybe then that's why it is so good and it makes you so curious, because maybe sometimes you don't know the why, you're like, damn, this is great and I don't know why it is, but it is like that.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah, exactly, maybe it's the highest level probably. Yeah, exactly.
Marc Müskens:So why?
Marc Müskens:No, why no, why anymore, no, why but in order to know what you need to do for your clients. No, why no? Why anymore? Just feel it. In order to know what you need to do for your clients. I think it's very helpful to go to the deeper level. If you ask a few times, why? Then you can come to the real deal. Why is it in the first place? They want to hire you as an interior designer. Yes, make my home beautiful, but in the end, they want to hire you as an interior designer. Yes, make my home beautiful, but in the end, they want to spend more time together. They want to surround themselves with beautiful objects, but that's another why eh.
Marc Müskens:That's the why I'm aiming for yeah. And then I remember, if we go back to Jan, he could explain why certain furniture pieces or interventions were necessary, For instance, to make a space feel lighter or more spacious. But he also linked activity to interior design items. That's what I love so much.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah.
Marc Müskens:You know what I mean. No, no. He was creating moments. He was creating moments for his clients Like I'm. Inviting you to dream about how wonderful it would be soon to read the newspaper at the table in that spot that's what you mean.
Monique des Bouvrie:You know what I mean.
Marc Müskens:He was a master at it he was a master, he was a master to make you dream of this meaningful moment.
Marc Müskens:He was connecting that with the chair, or with the table, or with the light. Imagine that you are reading a newspaper. It's kind of poetic, romantic almost, but it's how I work nowadays. It has everything to do with that, not this beautiful chair. It will fit your home. No, we want to create together this moment and in order to create this, this is the ultimate scenario on your terms, with this chair not why, but what if? What if? Yeah, what happens yeah?
Monique des Bouvrie:exactly. We should do this by ourselves almost with everything.
Marc Müskens:I think you are raising a new level in your life your own reality and to believe in it.
Monique des Bouvrie:Create your own reality. Yeah, you can do it with everything.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, you can design your life. Yeah, right.
Monique des Bouvrie:And to get then inspired by somebody else and then think about it and, okay, I want to have that too. It's my creation which will be real.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, and in the end we are designers or architects, so it should be easy, right? You just have to be conscious to see the world in another perspective. Yeah, exactly, we can make it. We are the creators. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, we have a wonderful profession right because we can do the same for other people.
Monique des Bouvrie:So if you know it exactly for your own life, I think you are, you do a good job for other people because you know what kind of questions yeah, because because you, um, you have to get to know them a little bit and see how they live and maybe you can add something more to their life, to do not standard things, but to create something which is like a special menu for them special menu like a menu. Yeah them Special menu. Like a menu yeah, we create a menu for our clients.
Marc Müskens:Is it the menu like in a recipe, or you just serve it?
Monique des Bouvrie:I just serve it.
Marc Müskens:You serve it. Yeah, in order to have a great yeah, but for me it's always important.
Monique des Bouvrie:If I create something um um, it should make me happy also, it should make me, should make something feel here that it's okay, I could live there you are pointing at your heart right now.
Marc Müskens:People are just listening.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah sorry, um, I'm always. I always work with my heart and that's a good thing. If it feels good here, it's okay so you, you can trust your intuition fully yeah, yeah yeah yeah, and okay, not every time that good, but um I try always um it should should feel good here when I create something and I see it. If it feels good, I could live there and it's okay, and I know those people like it also and it has all the elements in it.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, to live a live, a live, a wonderful life yeah, yeah, exactly yeah but. I create.
Monique des Bouvrie:I create always, um, always with my, with my feeling, always, always with the heart cool.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, it's about the um. We could call it the the essence of living, right, if you? If you see it that way, if you design it that way, it really comes to the essence down to the essence of living. Yeah, but nowadays and that's a kind of my second part I would like to switch to that. Nowadays, aesthetics, beauty trends seem to dominate the home decor industry.
Monique des Bouvrie:Do you agree? Yeah, yeah, in some way.
Marc Müskens:But you mean what you were saying about trends. Well, it's about the next new shiny object, the next new season color, the next new. This is for some people, people, well, for the normal daily general people, as you could call it, just you're just not in the in the interior design business and what you see in magazines, yeah, but for me, everything goes by a certain kind of natural flow.
Monique des Bouvrie:So, um, um, now it's very much the flow of handcraftship. It's everything with structure, natural colors, a lot of wood. I like it very much, but I'm ready for to add something to this. I like it. I like it when people are making things with their hands, when things are have a story. Everything should have a story. You create something, you have a story and I think we need to add something. So in my head I'm already busy, and also on the drawing table we are busy to create something new, to add this handcraft ship with some other colorful items. I can't say a lot because I want to, I don't, I don't want to to say to give everything, um, away away.
Marc Müskens:Oh, it's this kind of secret.
Monique des Bouvrie:It's a season right now yeah, because it's not finished yet.
Marc Müskens:Yeah it's not finished, all right, all right, but it's at you because you told me just in the beginning of the podcast.
Monique des Bouvrie:you told me you would like always to add something or to change something or to kind of movement, because I never want to make the whole time the same kind of interior projects, because it's very important to um to get wonder, to, to to get surprised if you walk into a space and it should do something with you and it's we're not talking about, um, if something is beautiful, ugly, but it, but it should do something with you that you get wondered by something, wow, what is this? And if later on you ask me do you like it? Maybe I don't like it, but the wondering, that's very important.
Marc Müskens:If you talk about. Maybe I don't like it. I have this sometimes. You have this, this strange feeling that I'm I love something, but it's so ugly, it's so such a strange object or stupid or or not well designed, but I I'm really attracted sometimes to those items, do you?
Monique des Bouvrie:recognize that.
Marc Müskens:I recognize that but yeah, what could it be? What is it?
Monique des Bouvrie:explain why it is ugly.
Marc Müskens:That's very hard to say, I cannot say it, it's really, but I do feel like, what is it? What is attracting me, this stupid thing?
Monique des Bouvrie:But sometimes in the beginning you can okay, it wonders you and you don't think it's ugly or beautiful. But then it can. If you look to it again and again, it can give you a feeling that you're going to like it.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, that's why they talk about hate.
Monique des Bouvrie:Again, why? Why, I don't know.
Marc Müskens:Why? Just experience it, just let it be. Let it be. If you want to have this thing, well, buy it, or take it, or have it. If it's not, it's okay.
Monique des Bouvrie:Keep, yeah, leave it yeah, yeah, okay, but it's for me it's always important to create again something new and don't do the whole time uh like, uh, um, it's the same thing. I don don't like it. I like to do to. I always say also you have to face your fears in life, because you learn a lot from it and it gets you more confident. But I get bored very quickly if I do the whole time the same thing. I need to have the challenge in life. I need to have the challenge to create something new again, and sometimes it doesn't work out that well, but I'm allowed to.
Marc Müskens:Business-wise. Business-wise or no? No, how do you say business work?
Monique des Bouvrie:out, because we create here in our studio a lot of new spaces every time, and sometimes I think, hmm, I don't know, then I'm going to do it again, but it's also my practice area where I can do it, to create new things for our clients. So this is a good thing to do.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, so you can do it in your own studio to test it out to see how it works. Exactly, exactly, yeah. What do they love? Why do they love it Well?
Monique des Bouvrie:again why?
Marc Müskens:do they love it? No, but what does it do with me? If I create something, is it?
Monique des Bouvrie:wandering, yeah, yeah. Why do they love it? What does it do with me? Is it wandering? Yeah, especially when people are walking through our studio here, through the spaces, I want them to have this wandering, this wandering feeling. If they walk from one space into another, they should get wondered. And they do that because at the end they say, well, amazing. And a lot of times people think we are still doing the white and black thing, which was the favorite of Yam, and we are not doing this. I always tell people black and white are colors. They're not really colors, but they give other colors a kind of strength.
Marc Müskens:Is it the kind of background for the colors Like a museum does with this?
Monique des Bouvrie:No, I think black for the colors, like a museum does with this. No, I think the background black. I love to add black black um small, um uh items which give um a very natural uh interior, um a kind of wow how do you say that in English? Stains Force.
Marc Müskens:I don't know, yeah force, yeah power.
Monique des Bouvrie:It's a power.
Marc Müskens:Black touches empowers the rest of the. Exactly. Yes, well, it does. When I was visiting a few months ago, we met in your studio it I it was a literally a candy store, because you've gotten from this sometimes black white room into this magical room with fluffy materials and a kind of yeah well, a kind of fairy tale.
Monique des Bouvrie:I love because I mean you come in yeah, I travel a lot and, um, I like, I go to a lot of our galleries or I go to small places where I find a lot of beautiful things and we try to to find things, um, special, small items made by special people in different countries, and we buy those things and we place them here. But these are all things that I like, which I love, and I'm not looking at first at the commercial side of it. Of course we need to to eat, but at first I always it needs to do something with me.
Marc Müskens:I'll have to like it we call it, form follows meaning.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah yeah, yeah, you're right, that's true could it be a?
Marc Müskens:could it be a a new direction where we're heading with interior design, these meaningful pieces.
Monique des Bouvrie:Of course, meaningful pieces are very important. I think everybody should place items in their homes which gives you a happy feeling and it needs to do something with you, and not place things in your house which you think are a la mode, very trendy at the moment, because I don't believe in that. Somebody asked me what kind of colors are For next year and I say Any color you love, because that's what it is.
Marc Müskens:Google for the next new color and you don't know anymore. The only thing I would say Try to mix and match.
Monique des Bouvrie:Try to. I would say, when I see somebody young driving in an old car, that's beautiful. Or when you are old, you should wear new clothes In an interior, you should combine high gloss with very matte materials, with structure. So it's always yin and yang.
Marc Müskens:And that's what I always want to put also in an interior.
Monique des Bouvrie:Could you define this as your new well yang builder kind of legacy? No, I always did that.
Marc Müskens:I always, you always did that.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah, it's really, it's your it's a kind of natural thing yeah, this is your design.
Marc Müskens:We call it design principles that you should have. Those we have. We have a have an 11 11 kind of game rules. If don't like it, then don't work with us, because this is how we see the entire design. This is the impact you want to create the game rules.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah.
Marc Müskens:So this is your top one game rule.
Monique des Bouvrie:I like that. I like something a very old table with a very modern design share. It's a wonderful thing. Just mix and and match, then you make a special thing, but it should be something natural, what you like. Yeah, don't do anything what people want you to do, but just it should be natural should give you a good feeling how do you see the freedom?
Marc Müskens:Because you do have a big network, all the brands. You're designing your own products, so you stick to that. Or how do you make it really perfect? Do you integrate their objects they already do have in their life, or is it completely new, you mean? That I I objects of of um yeah, well, it can be a couch, it can be a furniture piece, can be some uh antique piece that they already got into into their life and they, they, love.
Monique des Bouvrie:You mean, you mean, you mean clients?
Marc Müskens:yeah, yes, of course with clients. Yeah, how do?
Monique des Bouvrie:you work, how do you cope? Of course I integrate that, of course, in an interior interior, because for me it's important what they like. It's very easy to move out everything, throw away everything, but I think you should always ask what is um of importance to them and then you should, um, uh, give this item a special place and you can easily integrate that in a new interior, no problem. Always be very respectful to those items. Yeah, I always do that.
Marc Müskens:Yeah. What do you hate right now about what you see in the interior design world?
Monique des Bouvrie:I don't hate anything. What really frustrates you. I'm not judging. I don't hate anything. I'm not a judge. I don't hate everything what really frustrates you, I'm not judging. I don't hate anything. I'm not a judge. I don't judge about anything, because you don't care. Yeah, I don't really care If they don't step on me. I don't step on them.
Monique des Bouvrie:But I really I'm not judging, I'm not a negative person. I'm very positive. Why should I? Why should I say, oh, that's, that's stupid or ugly or whatever? No, I'm not doing this. I, I'm a happy, positive person and I want to, um, to be inspired from talks which I have with people, uh and uh, from, uh, from beautiful things which I see on my travels so positive, and I don't hate anything.
Marc Müskens:No, what could be? Because you're well, we could say you're a great businesswoman in the entire design world. You are appearing in magazines, tv, you have have a wonderful store shop uh, great high-end clients traveling the world. So that's the kind of designer preferred designer lifestyle. For lots of it, they're designers. Yeah, so is it for you too, is this, is this the, the designer lifestyle?
Monique des Bouvrie:you always wanted to live? Yeah, because I'm so happy to do this work. It's my life and for me it's always important to be on the move. You can't put me seven days a week, eight hours a day, here on the floor, because if you don't move, move, you don't see anything. So for me it's important to to travel a lot, to see a lot, to get inspired by everything in life, and if not, maybe my mind would be different.
Marc Müskens:I don't know is this one of your. If you should advise people that are just starting out in interior design, maybe they, uh, they have really strong feelings for beautiful items and they would like to work with colors. What it's mostly, I think it's the real starting point.
Monique des Bouvrie:If you are a startup, it's very important to move around. So, okay, maybe you don't have the money to travel a lot, but just move around in your own surrounding, because if you just stay at home and think about it, nothing will happen. So go to beautiful places in your own surrounding, go to art galleries, go to museums, do those kind of things or have beautiful talks with people. Beautiful talks, yeah because go and sit on a terrace and just meet other people you don't know and have a beautiful conversation.
Monique des Bouvrie:That can happen of course, yeah, yeah, so like like be on the move the whole time, move yourself around great, and what if you are?
Marc Müskens:what if you are just, uh, if you have a few years of business, you know you're wearing that face like okay, every time people are reaching the next touching the ceiling, they feel like I'm stuck. I don't know how to continue. But if you look back in your career, I have the same.
Monique des Bouvrie:I also have sometimes I'm not creative and I want to be creative and I do this or that and then just suddenly it happens. But it can happen by a good conversation with somebody or by seeing something, or by opening a magazine and see something beautiful which inspires me. Then, but don't go and sit and force yourself to be creative, because then it doesn't happen, it just happens. It comes up. But just be, go on the move let it go move yeah yes, move around flow yeah yeah yeah go, we'll go with the flow.
Marc Müskens:That's also um a sentence which is very alamode go with the flow, yeah it is yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and then you, then you need to stay and to keep stay in the flow. You know you, it's like the, the opposite energy. Actually you need to stay in the flow, you need to touch it and hold it, but the flow is let it go.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah, yeah.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, just let it go. Just let it go, and then the magic will happen for you. Magic will happen, but believe in it.
Monique des Bouvrie:You need to believe in it, yeah, yeah.
Marc Müskens:That's the mode, yeah.
Monique des Bouvrie:Is it mindset to build a good business?
Marc Müskens:Yeah, also to build a good business, yeah also, yeah, yeah, you need to believe in it.
Monique des Bouvrie:And I'm saying this, but sometimes for me it's also hard to believe in something.
Marc Müskens:But, you need to believe in it.
Monique des Bouvrie:yeah Is mindset more important than designer skills? No, I think both. Of course you need to be creative, because otherwise you can have a mindset and then nothing happens. But you need, you need to have skills, of course, and then mindset. So it's first you need to have the skills inside what kind of?
Marc Müskens:what kind of skill? Because I'm always curious, because most people designers. They do a design academy or something like that design school. Sometimes they don't, but they start a business and they are missing some skills or qualities. What are the skills that you faced? I don't know.
Monique des Bouvrie:What was your background really no, no, no, I had the best teacher, yeah, yeah yeah, you had.
Marc Müskens:You started with a mentor in life.
Monique des Bouvrie:Yeah, I had a public relation background, so something totally different and people, people oriented yes, but I met Jan and I was, I was already creative, I was, I was working with my hands, doing things and painting, and so I was already creative at school also. And then I met Jan and he was my best teacher. So he I think it maybe it should be happened like it happens, and he took it out, he took the creativity up with me. So that's a good thing, and I didn't know that I had this skill so much in me. So, yeah, it just happens and it can happen to everybody.
Monique des Bouvrie:So to meet the right people which are triggering something in you, and then it can happen. But let it go then. Let it happen again.
Marc Müskens:Let it go.
Monique des Bouvrie:It's frozen today, yeah of course you need to be. You need to be creative. Of course, of course you need. You need to be um you need to be creative, of course.
Marc Müskens:I'm very curious and eager all the time. That's why maybe my obsession with this why thing like I try to understand things and I'm always curious for more the story behind then. That's what's really meaningful to me in my life. That's the real purpose behind it. Just go like a tourist in life, right click, oh nice and go. I like to understand stuff. We call it beyond interior design. Beyond interior design is this kind of extra magical?
Marc Müskens:layer you can attach to our beautiful profession. How would you like to describe, beyond interior design, what could be beyond for you?
Monique des Bouvrie:um beyond, beyond interior design beyond. Is that um? For me it it's. It's to create something, uh, which is very individual, um, and it makes a wondering, gives a wandering feeling and and not doing um things. Oh, this is very hard, this question, because my brain, that's why I'm asking you.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, um, it is something you cannot touch, but everybody knows, as creator, we know that sometimes you reach this beyond level. There's something going on, like you said. I can feel it in my heart. Yeah, you know it's there. You added this special ingredient in your process, in your final build, in your maybe it's kind of energy you're adding, but, yeah, I would. What is this? What is it for you, maybe what's your recipe to add beyond? I like this wandering part. Yeah, I like that.
Monique des Bouvrie:I think that's your, because every new project is a new story, yeah, and it should be special, more special than special than special. It should be my, my, my, my brains, my brain is going like this because I want to create something which is, uh, outstanding, um, and nobody should say I love it, because if somebody say, oh, I like it, and that's not what I like, I want to have faces like this don't say anything, but so open mouth effect, that's what I like yeah, open eyes and open mouth effect.
Monique des Bouvrie:That's what I like. Yeah, they know you are the open eyes and open mouths that's what I like. Say nothing thank you.
Marc Müskens:Uh, nailed a wonderful description of beyond right see, that's why they call us the white guys.
Monique des Bouvrie:We just continue asking you questions and we get there.
Marc Müskens:We get there always. Now we are in the core of what you're doing. Yeah, it's wonderful. This is your design principle. Wandering is your beyond the level.
Monique des Bouvrie:Don't say anything.
Marc Müskens:Oh, this was the recipe, this was your new layer. Yeah, I really like it that you always, uh, always, um, discuss what is going on right now. You add always something new to what we already know. Yeah, and that makes it every time you're challenging people, challenging, uh well, maybe humanity to go to a next level in some way. Right, so we started with this brown, dark brown interiors. Yeah, just a chair, but it was quality and that's it into a kind of new world with a whole new levels in it. It's not just a chair anymore.
Monique des Bouvrie:No, no, it's, it's far beyond and and um. Sometimes when I'm with my team, I can't explain why a certain kind of setting which I made then is good, because sometimes I don't understand. But then I tell them just look at it and what do you feel here? Don't think about commercial, just what do you sense. Don't think about commercial, just what do you sense. And because it's very hard to explain my brain, my feeling, but I want them to practice this and to exercise and to sense that also in their certain kind of way. You still understand what I'm saying yes, definitely, yes.
Marc Müskens:My next question, my next, my next question was oh, do you do the same with your clients? Then do you do you say, please, quiet, feel what is, what is what is coming up? Yeah, do you use this well, kind of strategy to you mean, make sure that you are in the right direction. You have, you're presenting your design the same, like you do for your for your.
Monique des Bouvrie:For me it's very important to at the beginning to have the right interview with them, and because then you get to know them a little bit and then you start making these ideas and then they come for the first time to see what your mood board is, your creation, your drawing, and then it's always a little bit scary if you are on the right track, it's always and Okay.
Monique des Bouvrie:And then it's when you're on the right track. It's so wow, Because it always scares me. It always scares me a lot if we are really on the right track, but then okay.
Marc Müskens:And we had.
Monique des Bouvrie:It still does scare you after all those thousands of projects, of course, and there is very, very maybe a couple of times that it didn't work out that way, but I can count it on one hand. So, because we know to ask the right questions, that's important to really get to know them, and then the works are good. But it's a process. Yeah, it's a process, and a process is I always say you are creating, how do you say that? I can't find the word shape environment.
Marc Müskens:What are you looking for?
Monique des Bouvrie:sculpture, I'm sculpturing it takes time and that's a nice thing to do.
Marc Müskens:I don't know. Thank you very much. Thank you very, very much for this conversation. We're already finished? Yeah, I do think, but it's perfectly. I would like to wrap this up because we touched so beyond level and in order to get there and this kind of recipes that will inspire so many people to add their own beyond layers to the industry, because I think I really want to fight against this flat image of interior design in the world. Yeah, with these cheap chairs and this, people throw it away if they don't like it anymore and the only thing they have to do is think about it. Do I like this? Why do I like this? Do I like this for a longer time period, or what?
Monique des Bouvrie:is. Is it adding to my life? Also, because sometimes people say yeah, but I don't have the money To buy those kind of furniture. Then I say tell them Okay, just what do you like? Just Collect money, save money For to buy this special item which you love so much. You, you keep it for life because it costs you also so much energy and money to buy this and you need to keep this forever. But always do things, not the cheap industry, but create beautiful things and surround you with beautiful things thank you, monique, it was okay to have you here.
Marc Müskens:Okay, really an honor. It uh it's kind of well. It it's actually it started a whole new, new way of looking at in the world. But it's for me it feels like a circle as well, because if you go back to my 10 year old kid with my sketchbooks, copying jan, with the sketches in the in the books that I have this I do still do have the scholar books.
Monique des Bouvrie:And then now you are in my life, I'm 40 right now, you see how important it is to to be inspired by somebody.
Marc Müskens:Yeah, to have your role models yeah yeah, to find your role, role models in life and and the funny thing is that you really grow. You can grow with them because they are a perspective, can change sometimes, maybe they change in another direction, and you know for sure it's not me. Yeah, it happens. It's like what he or she is doing right now. That's okay. I don't like him or her anymore. I I'm not. This is not my design religion, no, this is not my vision on the world, but, yeah, in some way we still. I didn't know you were really into this beyond level, because it's most of the time people don't see the outside world, the media, they don't see it from this, this spiritual design, as we all are like intuition and yeah, well, it's a kind of magical thing.
Marc Müskens:Clients are like how do you do that? Sometimes it's like intuition and yeah, well, it's a kind of magical thing. Clients are like how do you do that? Sometimes like I don't know. So, yeah, it's, it's, I just do it. Yeah, I can't explain, but that's the thing, you just do it. Yeah, you like it. Uh, yeah, yeah, okay, well, job done funny, hey.
Monique des Bouvrie:Um, oh, if we're gonna move netherlands, where?
Marc Müskens:no, sorry, sorry. I have to close down. So if you I do hope me and Monique made it impossible for you to design the same way you did before, before you listen to this podcast episode, that's always my idea of every episode, so that's why we've changed or want to empower your perspective on the terror design to create real impact. So what could be the beyond layer for your design business? Leave us a comment, send us an email. I love the fmu. Thank you very much. See you in the next episode. Bye bye.
